JOHN WILSON SIGNATURE PIKE SYSTEM

[big gus]

Lads, I'll regret asking this - but here goes.

Bit confused with the John Wilson Pike system (or maybe it's 'line rating' and 'cast weight' that I dont understand).

I guess most of you know the rod in question...three-in-one....12ft, 9ft 6, and 7ft trigger grip.

The line rating on all three versions is '10 - 15'.....what does this mean? Surely not the 10lb to 15lb strength as, obviously, I use anything between 30lb and 100lb braid for piking??

So what exactly is line rating?

The other question is regarding cast weight? It says the 12ft versoin can cast anything up to 8oz (up to 240grams?), whilst the other versions cast weight is "1-3 ounzes"

Am I confused with both of these terms.

Penultimate question is: I've got an abu 6501 and an abu 5501...can i use these reels on all versions of the rod or would my shimano 5000 gte b be better on the 12ft version??


(OH, AND FINALLY, HOW DO YOU GUYS FIND THE ROD?? ANYBODY WHO HAS FISHED IT I'D APPRECIATE A REVIEW?)

Apologies for length of post.....
Gus

 

[keora]

Line rating usually indicates the breaking strain of monofilament line that the rod is designed to cope with.

For the rod in question it means that a mono line above 15 lb bs may indirectly cause rod breakage if you don't give line against a fast powerful fish. Using a line of 15 lb or less gives you a safety margin in that the line will break before the rod.

If you use a mono line of less than 10lbs with the rod, you will find that you can't put enough bend in the rod without the risk of the line breaking. In other words, although you are using a powerful rod, you are not using it to its full potential because a line of less than 10lbs is too weak.

As for the use of braid, it's often suggested that anglers use braid which has the same diameter as the mono line recommended for the rod. This is supposed to allow for the fact that braid is more susceptible to fraying (and cuts) than mono. In practice this usually means that you use braid which is twice the breaking strain of the mono recommended for the rod.

The risk with using extra strong braids is that under heavy loading, the rod will break before the braid does.

I did this myself last winter. I hooked a sunken tree branch on a stout spinning rod with 30lb braid. I swung the branch in to the bank, lifted it up and the rod broke in two ! With a 15lb mono line, the line would have snapped and the rod would have been saved.

Why do we use braid of such high breaking strains ? It's to give us security, and it also helps in conserving the environment. With say 30lb braid or greater, if you snag lure or deadbait rigs on the river bend, you can normally retrieve them with a strong pull - the line is so strong that it will open up most snagged hooks. So you don't leave multi hook rigs in the river.

As for casting weight the rule of thumb, popularised by **** Walker many years ago is this:

A rod with a test curve of 1 lb (typical of many avon type rods) has an optimum casting weight of 1ozs and a line bs of 5lb.

So a rod with a 3lb test curve ( a bit of a beast in my view) has an optimum casting weight of 3 ozs and a line bs of 15 lbs.

 

[big gus]

Keith, thanks for your response. Unfortuntaly I think you may have confused the John Wilson Avon and the John Wilson Pike.

I am talking about the latter.

I appreciate all your points about line rating and casting weight - and your points would of course make sense if it were the Avon rod.

But we're talking about the pike rod...so to suggest I should use line with maximum breaking strain of 15lbs seems odd?

Couls somebody read my opening post again and help out before I headbutt the wall..cheers chaps.

 

[keora]

No, I've not confused the Wilson Avon rod with the Wilson Pike rod.

At the end I used an Avon rod purely as a simple example of the relationship between test curve, breaking strain and casting weight.

Nowadays we pike anglers use braids which break at weights which are far above the force that our pike rods can withstand. Until braids became popular, whoever would have considered using mono line of 30lb plus for pike? As I explained before, we now use braid for security and conservation.

You mentioned using 30 to 90 lb braid, which is a common range of breaking strains among pike anglers using braid.

But we should accept that most pike rods would break if we tried to exert a force capable of snapping 30lbs braid . A simple test (if you don't mind risking breaking the rod) is to set up a 12 ft pike rod with 30 lbs braid, and tie the end of the line to a weight of 30 lb resting on the ground. Then try and lift the weight using the rod!
The rod will probably break before the line

I've got a Drennan spinning rod and the label on it states it is suitable for mono lines of 10 to 15 lbs or higher strength braids. It's interesting to note that Drennan doesn't quote the actual braid strength.

To me the figures quoted on the Wilson pike rod system sound acceptable, although I think that an 8oz casting weight for the 12 footer is a bit high. But with modern carbon this may be correct.

 

[big gus]

Keith, appreciate the response, so thanks for taking the time.

So, in your opinion, in which situations would you use the three 'versions' of the Wilson rod, and which strength braid would you suggest is the best for each of the three?

Thanks for you input.

 

[keora]

Gus, I've looked at a description of the Wilson pike system. The Test curve of the 12 ft version is 2.75lbs, which I suggest indicates the optimum mono line strength is around 14lbs breaking strain. The makers recommend 10 to 15 lb mono for this version, which means that it can cope with a range of lines around the optimum of 14lb bs.

The maker says the other two versions are also suitable for lines of 10 to 15 lbs.

Different sections of the system are combined to produce a 12 foot bait rod, a 9ft spinner and a 7ft baitcaster, but they all have in common the use of the same 6ft tip section. And it's this 6ft tip that restricts your choice of line - no matter what version you set up, the same tip is used so the recommended mono line strength is 10 - 15lbs in every case.

If I were you I'd use 30 lb braid for all versions - I use it on a JW soft carp rod and a Drennan spinning rod. Of course a line like this is so strong that in the wrong hands you could break the rod when stopping a large fish reaching snags - but an experienced angler can judge when to give line.

The spinner and baitcaster versions have max casting weights of 3 ozs. I believe the 12 ft deadbait rod has an 8 oz casting weight because you can't cast a soft bait at high velocities because it will fly off the hook (force on the rod end is equal to the weight of the bait or lure times the tip velocity). So if the tip velocity is less, you can use a heavier bait without overstressing the rod.

I'd use the twelve footer for bait fishing using float or leger; the 9ft version for spinning with lures and jigs; the 7ft baitcaster for lures jigs and smallish jerk baits.

 

[big gus]

Thanks for the advice, all taken on board, appreciated.

Do I take it you don't particularly rate the rod?

I assumed pike rods dont go much higher than 3lb test curve, so goodness know what you need to chuck out bull dawgs and the like!

Cheers for your help, Keith.

 

[mike hunt]

yeah

 

[keora]

I've not seen the rod, but from the description it sounds a versatile system and not bad at ?100 for 3 different types of rod.

I'd buy one but I prefer to have my rods made up all the time with reels and lines already attached - and with Wilson system you can obviously only have one type of rod made up at any time.

You can buy baitcasting rods which will cast out jerkbaits of about 6ozs or even more - these tend to be short and very stiff, and the makers usually quote casting weights rather than test curves.

 

[p a c man(B A S)]

"YEA" your on f.m (respect)

 

[p a c man(B A S)]

the above wont me lads it was my son ,(cheeky little twa*")