More on dropped runs

[MarkTheSpark]

...infuriatingly, GM's always right!
I've come to very similar conclusions about dropped runs and whther pike feel resistance.

Pike do drop baits after giving them a mauling, but I'm not sure of the reasons. One thing I do know is that keeping terminal rigs really simple - and I agree, Graham, that freelining is always best, when feasible - is always the best policy.

I'm a drop-off alarm devotee, mainly because of the faff involved in getting running-line alarms adjusted to perfection to avoid the endless bleep - bleep - bleep that drives you mad (and makes you complacent about what could be very tentative 'bites')

That said, I take great care to get all the slack out of the line when freelining and set the adjustable line clip at its most sensitive, and ensure that it only takes an inch or two of drop to set the alarm whining.

In the round, the more sensitive the set-up, the more likely you are to detect runs. I would add that I attend to every bleep, manually pulling the line from the clip (open bale arm) and then using touch and watching the line at its entry point to the water to work out what's going on.

I have had my share of baits dropped then picked up a second time. If you're holding your rod and watching the line, you are much more efficient than the alarm at detecting the fish on the other end.

And of course, when you think the pike has the bait in its mouth - as opposed to waiting for it to eat it - strike right away. If you can't reach your rods in two seconds, try the single hook, 'hair rig' approach I outlined in the original thread. I can only reiterate that it works - you may rethink your strategy with trebles when you've tried it.

Like Graham, I've been up and down on hook sizes. I've settled for 4s on Irish loughs where things can get pretty hairy, 6s for all livebaiting and big deads, and size 8s or 10s for small deadbaits... semi-barbless.

I've also tried a big sea-sized single and small treble at the end for livebaiting with small baits, and it's superb. What will interest you is the number of pike hooked on the bait-holding single (which goes through the root of the bait's dorsal). You should use a nice, thick, short-shank single and you'll find you cast off far fewer baits. The small treble also reduces livebait damage.

 

[sash]

I must disagree with anyone advocating freelining tactics for pike in this modern 'a new pike angler born every minute' world as it will lead to a lot of deeply hooked and dead pike. No offence intended to you Mark but more a response to what I see on the banks every week.

The vast majority of so called pike anglers I see on the bank can't even set up adequate indication when legering or float fishing, I dread to think what it might be like when freelined.

PS I'm not sure that Graham is actually advocating freelining tactics ("and the free-line rig offers the least"), indeed I seemed to think that he is fully opposed to it?

 

[MarkTheSpark]

I do understand your concerns, Sash, but bad angling is bad angling. Fishing float-paternoster without an up-trace is dodgy, leaving runs is dodgy, fishing without an unhooking mat is dodgy, not carrying forceps, not finding out how to unhook pike before going piking, forgetting to switch your alarm back on... I could go on.

Freelining is not inherently dangerous, any more than float fishing for pike. Fish a livebait float way overdepth and pike can nosh a bait without dragging it under. That doesn't make it wrong.

The prerequisites of freelining are being in close attendance to your rods, ensuring your run indication shows drop-backs as well as pulls, and remaining observant.

 

[GrahamM]

Yes, Sash is right, sorry Mark, but I'm not a freeline fan. Not so bad at short range but otherwise it can lead to poor indications.

 

[MarkTheSpark]

Fair dos. We all have to speak as we find.

 

[sash]

Fully agree with you Mark but those prerequisites that you list are exactly those that a number of pike anglers lack (or indeed any type of angler I daresay) and hence why I don't like methods that require them to be advocated.

Noddy 1 reads that freelining deads is a great method, next thing you know Noddies 2, 3, 4 and 5 (his mates) are all trying it 'cause Noddy 1 had a "great big pike the other week freelining". The following weeks I'm catching pike with trebles down their throats.....

 

[sash]

And seeing as we share the same pike fishing waters I'm sure you've seen a number of the Noddies before too and are therefore aware of what they are capable (or not..) of. I'm all for instruction and teaching pike anglers to fish for / handle pike correctly but I don't believe in making it harder for ourselves than it already is.

 

[mark barrett 2]

dunno about the freelining, in my experience unless you are using a big dead at short range, its a recipe for unhooking.

also the phrase that a pike has a lateral line is slightly erroneous as the lateral line and the neuromast system that the pike has (the holes around its head and jaws) work to detect primarily different stimuli.
the neuromast is designed to detect the other movement of fish, which is why pike have the system, whilst the lateral line is more responsive to external stimuli, such as current speed etc.
there is a degree of crossover, but its cdertainly not a lateral line extension.

 

[pcpaulh]

Nice article Graham, I'm pretty new to piking so don't have anything to contribute but will give ago what you've written.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Tend to agree with all and disagree with all here!

I dont freeline anymore,but used to! It has a lot of room for misuse and is very poor mechanically for bite detection but as said its really down to being vigilant.

Dont really see any situations where it would give an advantage though so no longer use it.

 

[Chris Bishop]

I find the dropped takes are very much something which happens towards the end of the season.

Rarely happens to me otherwise and I tend to fish quite crudely most of the time.

 

[Phil Heaton]

Sorry Mark but i'm a convert to heavy leads with ledgered baits, in fact I have even gone back to mono as it gives a smoother pull through the run rig eye. I use leads between 2 ounce and 4 ounce depending on the cicumstances, still or running water.
I prefer rear drop offs and a front alarm with the line taught, In this way no matter which way the pike moves it will pull line through the rig eye, slipping the rear drop off, often before the alarm sounds.
The main point against freelining is that we may get an 'expert' angler setting up 3 rods in this fashion, when he has no chance to adequatley cover the situation.
Maybe the most sensitive method of freelining would is to hold the rod with the line around a finger such as in touch ledgering, the disadvantage being most anglers are not satisfied with 1 rod.

 

[Chris Bishop]

This article by Dave Lumb is quite interesting as regards legering.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

I enjoyed that Graham, I found myself nodding at your observations, and shaking my head in equal measure. I guess that's what good writing is all about i.e stimulation.

Your point about pike not taking "stale" bait is simply wrong. I agree with the idea of primarily using fresh bait for basically two reasons, firstly it gives me the confidence I need to fish effectively, and secondly it lessens the chance of copping a dose of the lurgy whilst eating your sarnies. The pike however generally just don't give a toss, and will take a bait at basically any level of decomposition. I can't furnish you with any conclusive evidence on whether a rank bait is actually less effective than a fresh one, but personally I suspect it isn't grestly so in the majority of situations.

In recent seasons I've had Chris Bishop's approach to dropped runs, but I'm beggining to rethink it somewhat, as it has seemed a more regular occurence in recent seasons, which may relate directly to an increase in the interest in pike fishing. I can't believe annybody actually believes a pike would differentiate between a size 12 or size 4 treble, but I guess it's each to their own in that respect. I suspect resistance is the more crucial factor myself.

I suppose it depends on how you approach your piking. If for instance you like to target the same water season in and season out, then you are going to have occasion to do a little thinking from outside of the box. My own gameplan nowadays is to employ all my energy and thinking in seeking out non pressured waters. It pays off for me.

BTW I find it often the case that those poeople who appear to have an enormously grand opinion of their own prowess as pike anglers, while fostering little more than contempt for the majority of the rest of the sport's participants, are invariably some of the worst anglers I come across.

 

[richard schmidt]

I find using #6 hooks with live bait key to more hookups on the first strike. I use #2 for smelt and dead baiting, I think most drops happen as the fish is moving bait in mouth and or setting the hook at the wrong time. Fish has mouth open drops it for whatever reason. Thats why they call it fishing not getting. Rich

 

[captain carrott]

on thing i will add is what id do if i just get that one bleep.

go to the rod and get hold of the line in front of the alarm.

you can often feel little tugs on the line which don't move anything at all back at the bank, (touch ledgering for pike i know who would have thought it).

if i get any single bleep i will do this and spend about 30 seconds holding the line, any tug in that time and i strike. if i don't feel anything then i will spend another coule of minutes right by the side of the rod, just incase it happens again.

 

[MarkTheSpark]

That's precisely my approach, Cap'n. Some anglers also seem to have forgotten that they have perfectly good eyes. I watch the line all the time - it's surprising how much it can move before anything happens at the rod.

And why would anyone have all their rods on bite alarms? Surely the point of them is to alert you to a bite when you're looking elsewhere, and that 'elsewhere' should surely be a float, or some other distracting method like sink and draw?

I was once a 'chuck it out and hope' pike angler with a comfy chair, but a few blank days soon got me back on my feet. The pikers who catch the most and best fish are, without any shadow of doubt, the most active ones.

Look at Ed Turner - never sits still. Nev Fickling is always on the move. My old mate Dave Phillips could no more park himself in one spot for the day than he could fly to the moon.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

I agree totally with that mark.

Also Ive been asked before what makes a great pike angler great,having fished with most of them I too would say that the one noticable thing is that they are always doing something,trying to make it happen.Eddie is a great example of that.

 

[Matt Drew]

That was a nice thought out article. Have to say that I have more or less abandoned drop offs in favour of floats or bobbins fished in conjuction with delkims and the line held with an elastic band. Works fine in all but the widiest of weather or the longest of ranges. I feel using a band the line pulls out smoothly when you get a take not a jag like you can get with drop offs which I feel may sometimes cause dropped runs.

One point about loaded floats if you've never used them before is be careful you are not fishing miles overdepth as a fish can move a long way without giving an indication.I have no probs with a slider fished slighty overdepth.

 

[captain carrott]

And why would anyone have all their rods on bite alarms.

for when you are watching the water for signs of feeding fish, swirls, scattering preyfish and other signs of life which mean it's time to move.