Deadbait Advice needed!
- Thread starter pikepro1
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pointngo
Guest
baiting needle up their @rse aimed at the top of the head! 
Apart from float fishing or paternoster I can't see the problem tbh.. when I deadbait one of two rods is always a popped up roach, sometimes both, if freshwater baits are allowed. Often they'll outfish bottom baits. You can always put some weight to hold it down just behind the tail hook... that can be deadly on pressured waters. :thumbs:
Apart from float fishing or paternoster I can't see the problem tbh.. when I deadbait one of two rods is always a popped up roach, sometimes both, if freshwater baits are allowed. Often they'll outfish bottom baits. You can always put some weight to hold it down just behind the tail hook... that can be deadly on pressured waters. :thumbs:symonh2000
Well-known member
Usually they float for one of two reasons...
Either they have been in the freezer for too long and dried out or the swim bladder inside the fish is still inflated.
Stabbing the fish with a baiting needle in the right place usually cures the latter.
Either they have been in the freezer for too long and dried out or the swim bladder inside the fish is still inflated.
Stabbing the fish with a baiting needle in the right place usually cures the latter.
I used to kill my deadbaits in air to produce exactly the effect you describe.
If you see a freshly dead fish on the bottom it floats belly up with just the upper tip of its tail fin touching the bottom, by having air inside the swim bladder you can produce exactly the same effect.
Its usual to apply a small amount of weight to the trace to achieve the perfect presentation but when you do it can be deadly indeed.
On waters that are rarely fished for Pike, estate lakes, working quarries, carp lakes, etc a deadbait along the marginal shelf or reed-bed presented as above can far outfish any exotic from a tackle shop freezer.
Not quite as good a 3-4lb Pike livebait, but almost
If you see a freshly dead fish on the bottom it floats belly up with just the upper tip of its tail fin touching the bottom, by having air inside the swim bladder you can produce exactly the same effect.
Its usual to apply a small amount of weight to the trace to achieve the perfect presentation but when you do it can be deadly indeed.
On waters that are rarely fished for Pike, estate lakes, working quarries, carp lakes, etc a deadbait along the marginal shelf or reed-bed presented as above can far outfish any exotic from a tackle shop freezer.
Not quite as good a 3-4lb Pike livebait, but almost
Just be carefull if you do decide to allow your bait to pop up.
If you are float legering the bait can lift up and be close to the mainline. This can easily lead to you being bitten off unless you are using a wire uptrace.
Annoying for you but could be fatal to a pike as it swallows bait and hooks.
If you are float legering the bait can lift up and be close to the mainline. This can easily lead to you being bitten off unless you are using a wire uptrace.
Annoying for you but could be fatal to a pike as it swallows bait and hooks.
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If you going to use any Pike dead bait on the bottom you should place a weight, four SSG shot are ideal, four feet from the actual bait.
Remember a 25lb+ Pike is 42" or more long so you should allow for such a fish to swim around the dead bait from all directions without touching the line and getting spooked.
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If you going to use any Pike dead bait on the bottom you should place a weight, four SSG shot are ideal, four feet from the actual bait.
Remember a 25lb+ Pike is 42" or more long so you should allow for such a fish to swim around the dead bait from all directions without touching the line and getting spooked.
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pointngo
Guest
sorry but I disagree with that. Having the weight so far away from the bait gives the pike too much freedom to swallow it without a take being indicated, so could easily lead to deep hooking. If it's something you worry about then it would be better/safer to have a heavy weight next to the traces swivel and set the float 2-3ft overdepth, but tighten right up to the lead so the line lays a bit flatter. Personally I don't think it's necessary though. A safer way would be to just ledger for them in that instance. Sensitive bite indication is critical to avoid deep hooking pike.
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I only speak from experience and a fairly long list of plus 20s caught on the above rig.
I have never had a deep hooked fish on this rig, ever......seriously!
My method is to let the bait settle, slowly draw back around 4' of line by hand, and use cut tho sections of plastic tube indicators on a long drop loop between the reel and the butt ring.
A take is indicated by the front end of the plastic tube dropping half an inch or so (I've always reckoned that this is when the Pike blows the bait off the bottom to take it in its mouth tho I have no proof of this) the tube then remains in this front down position for around 30seconds before slowly rising towards the butt ring.
At this point I pick up the rod, remove the tube, point the rod down the line and wind until the line becomes tight, then raise the rod into its fighting curve and hold hard, if its a decent fish it will be securely hooked.
If the bait comes back its usually a small fish and missing those doesn't matter anyway.
My preferred baits are 8-12oz with 2x6s trebles 4" apart or a 4/0 circle if the bait is smaller, all on 3foot 30-40lb traces, my 4xSSGs are on a fixed loop of light line.
I prefer to fish alone, have used the same pair of rods and reels for over 50 years, have never used electronics and all my baits are fresh or of that season.
I am merely offering advice on what works for me, as in all aspects of angling nothing is definitive.
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pointngo
Guest
I'm not questioning your experience Mick but I suspect that you haven't had any deep hooked fish because of the large baits. If smaller baits were used on the rig, and left for 30 seconds+ then I'd expect deep hooking to be a real problem. As you say, nothing is definitive in fishing but using insensitive indication and leaving runs to develop is widely accepted as a no-go. I've had pike pick up 6-8oz deadbaits and swallow them on the spot a couple of times.. only by using braid and a tight line have I even seen the indicator move by half an inch and been able to hit it before it goes too deep. I'm not having a pop at you mate but after using the rig for a long time I suspect that you have the experience to know exactly what's going on when a fish picks the bait up but anyone looking in with less experience and/or aren't as vigilant could easily get it wrong and end up deep hooking fish imho.
Hi pointngo,
You may be right about small baits because whenever I fished them I always (unless fishing heads for Zander) used a running paternoster and sunken float plus the plastic tube on the drop loop, thus any activity by the bait could be detected and tightened upon, hook was a single size 6 near the tail.
I was also fishing unfished or very lightly fished waters, many times as part of my working day (I also had sonar equipment, a boat, unlimited natural bait and full vehicular access).
In all my professional 'fishing' I found the most deadly (legal) method for getting Pike onto the bank in numbers was to suspend a 6-8" deadbait head down under a float in mid water and drifted over a known Pike location.
I was so good the float would go, often within minutes, time and time again.
With this method lightly weighted deads far out fished lives to the extent that I would kill lives if I ran out of deads.
To avoid deep hooking it was absolutely essential to tighten onto the fish immediately the float disappeared as the Pike really shovelled the bait down fast.
I may be a bit old fashioned but all the Pike I caught during my employment I refuse to add to my Pike list, being paid to do it then calling the fish sport caught, doesn't seem right somehow.
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You may be right about small baits because whenever I fished them I always (unless fishing heads for Zander) used a running paternoster and sunken float plus the plastic tube on the drop loop, thus any activity by the bait could be detected and tightened upon, hook was a single size 6 near the tail.
I was also fishing unfished or very lightly fished waters, many times as part of my working day (I also had sonar equipment, a boat, unlimited natural bait and full vehicular access).
In all my professional 'fishing' I found the most deadly (legal) method for getting Pike onto the bank in numbers was to suspend a 6-8" deadbait head down under a float in mid water and drifted over a known Pike location.
I was so good the float would go, often within minutes, time and time again.
With this method lightly weighted deads far out fished lives to the extent that I would kill lives if I ran out of deads.
To avoid deep hooking it was absolutely essential to tighten onto the fish immediately the float disappeared as the Pike really shovelled the bait down fast.
I may be a bit old fashioned but all the Pike I caught during my employment I refuse to add to my Pike list, being paid to do it then calling the fish sport caught, doesn't seem right somehow.
.
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binka
Guest
Out of interest does anyone, other than stabbing the swim bladder, ever stab their deadbaits multiple times to let the juices leak out?
I've found it really effective, especially in heavily coloured water and rivers where the scent (flavour?) will waft a fair distance.
I've found it really effective, especially in heavily coloured water and rivers where the scent (flavour?) will waft a fair distance.
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pointngo
Guest
Hi Mick, a deadbait suspended mid water, head down, can be a killer method. I think it's because roach and skimmers often lie still in that position in cold water.. easy pickings for a pike coming from underneath. I use that tactic myself with a drifter float. Just out of interest mate, and please excuse my ignorance as i'm pretty new on this forum, what were you employed as to catch pike professionally? Cheers, Marc
---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------
I always do it with dead seabaits Binka, making sure the holes go right through so whichever side the bait lands (usually on the hook side) scent can get out easily.
---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------
I always do it with dead seabaits Binka, making sure the holes go right through so whichever side the bait lands (usually on the hook side) scent can get out easily.
richiekelly
Well-known member
[B said:pointngo;1265246]Hi Mick, a deadbait suspended mid water, head down, can be a killer method.[/B] I think it's because roach and skimmers often lie still in that position in cold water.. easy pickings for a pike coming from underneath. I use that tactic myself with a drifter float. Just out of interest mate, and please excuse my ignorance as i'm pretty new on this forum, what were you employed as to catch pike professionally? Cheers, Marc
---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------
I always do it with dead seabaits Binka, making sure the holes go right through so whichever side the bait lands (usually on the hook side) scent can get out easily.
Wasn't one of the large pike caught on Catching The Impossible caught using that method?
nicky
Well-known member
Ive been having alot of luck lately after buying some huge mackeral from morrisons out of which i got 9 baits cut the tail of one bait then cut the remaining bait in half so your left with a head and tail section then these two large baits have then been quartered length ways blood and guts everywhere but these really seem to attract quick bites i bought three smaller mackeral the other day for the same price but i think i rather use the big bait cut up the leak off a smell is immense compared to the smaller baits
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symonh2000
Well-known member
Are those fresh mackerel or previously frozen mackerel?
When sea fishing we used to use Mackerel flappers, and I have often wondered about using them for Pike.
The problem was that they tend to work best when fresh and not previously frozen.
Of course Mackerel being a summer species and Pike fishing being mostly done in winter might make it tricky to use them fresh.
When sea fishing we used to use Mackerel flappers, and I have often wondered about using them for Pike.
The problem was that they tend to work best when fresh and not previously frozen.
Of course Mackerel being a summer species and Pike fishing being mostly done in winter might make it tricky to use them fresh.
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pointngo
Guest
I think it was mate. I prefer to mount deads fished like this the same as a livebait.. one hook in the dorsal and one in the pectoral, so they sit head down but at an angle. I've seen shoals of roach and skimmers sit like this in winter.
---------- Post added at 17:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:18 ----------
interesting mate.. not done that myself but if a bait comes back with its stomach hanging out I usually give it a squeeze then chuck it back out for the same reason.
nicky
Well-known member
The fishmonger told me that the huge mackeral were sea caught and the small mackeral all the same size were farmed fish not that i would think that makes much difference but im definately not bothered about using chunks or flappers when i first started pike fishing i thought the bait had to resemble a fish but now with bit more experience ive realised they just know what fish is in any shape or form i sometimes mash up any used baits and throw a few handfuls of mush around my bait and wondered if the pike were actually eating these scraps so as an experiment set up a waggler and single small hook trace and fished a piece about half the size of a fag paper and within twenty minutes hooked a double figure pike which unfortunately came off but this was fished alongside half a fish and a live bait (there were two of us fishing) and that was the only bait that produced a bite that evening
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richiekelly
Well-known member
If the small mackerel were from Morrisons I think that they are line caught, interesting about the strips that you use though.