zander rigs and general tips

[Graham Elliott 1]

I'm going to have a go for my first zander on the Severn soon.

Likely to use small roach as bait, either whole or cut?

Any rigs/hook set ups/tips appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[binka]

Firstly, I wish you good luck Graham.

Zander can be the most infuriating species there is at times (just look what they've done to Skip!) and add "river" into the equation and you can just about double that statement up.

Just my experience but if you're gonna use a live then go for a perch, zander and bigger perch just love 'em and they will outlast a roach four fold.

If I were fishing two rods I would have a live on a float paternoster rig and watch it like a hawk, along with an inch square of a freshly caught and killed bait fish on an alarm on the other rod.

I like to use floats but you'll know the tweaks if you want to do otherwise.

Forget the rule book too.

You can catch in the brightest sunshine at midday but one thing you will probably encounter is that the damned things like to swim around for ages with the bait in their mouths and circle hooks are well worth a go as you can forget about the safety aspect of instant striking, but don't strike with the circles just gently wind into the fish and build up the resistance until the hook pulls clear of the throat and turns into the scissors on the way out.

And those likely looking slacks can be a bit misleading too, zander like to feel the flow over their backs so somewhere with flow and cover or the edge of a crease is perfect.

Coloured water I have found to be best and the heavier the better.

This was the first session I ever had with circle hooks, I banked a zander but didn't get a shot of where the circle hook lodged but I did manage it with a small jack during the same session...






I've also had two zander off my local river in the last three weeks on perch livebaits but I daren't tell you how many I think I missed or which dropped off mg:

Finally, when they've wound you up to fever pitch and you have given up, you will go on a pike session and land five of 'em on far heavier and maybe even cruder gear as I did!

It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

Again I wish you good luck, I hope something there was useful and please let us know how it goes

 

[S-Kippy]

Actually.....I've got me head round zander now but my knowledge is very specific to Bury Hill so I would not presume to offer any advice about proper river zander. I can't believe they can be any fussier bait wise than the OBH fish though.

About the only observation I would make is that if you're zander fishing then think zander & fish for zander. I don't think pike and zander mix that well.

 

[john step]

Firstly, I wish you good luck Graham.

Zander can be the most infuriating species there is at times (just look what they've done to Skip!) and add "river" into the equation and you can just about double that statement up.

Just my experience but if you're gonna use a live then go for a perch, zander and bigger perch just love 'em and they will outlast a roach four fold.

If I were fishing two rods I would have a live on a float paternoster rig and watch it like a hawk, along with an inch square of a freshly caught and killed bait fish on an alarm on the other rod.

I like to use floats but you'll know the tweaks if you want to do otherwise.

Forget the rule book too.

You can catch in the brightest sunshine at midday but one thing you will probably encounter is that the damned things like to swim around for ages with the bait in their mouths and circle hooks are well worth a go as you can forget about the safety aspect of instant striking, but don't strike with the circles just gently wind into the fish and build up the resistance until the hook pulls clear of the throat and turns into the scissors on the way out.

And those likely looking slacks can be a bit misleading too, zander like to feel the flow over their backs so somewhere with flow and cover or the edge of a crease is perfect.

Coloured water I have found to be best and the heavier the better.

This was the first session I ever had with circle hooks, I banked a zander but didn't get a shot of where the circle hook lodged but I did manage it with a small jack during the same session...






I've also had two zander off my local river in the last three weeks on perch livebaits but I daren't tell you how many I think I missed or which dropped off mg:

Finally, when they've wound you up to fever pitch and you have given up, you will go on a pike session and land five of 'em on far heavier and maybe even cruder gear as I did!

It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

Again I wish you good luck, I hope something there was useful and please let us know how it goes

That is so refreshing to read. I thought it was just me being incompetent.

I would add that a couple of years ago I experimented with single hooks and a hair for pike on the river. Thats when I caught the zander as a by catch.

My reckoning was that the soft green garden twine I was using as a hair would be inoffensive to the touch senses of the pikes mouth.

It would be biodegradable too. I caught as many zander as pike.

Last winter I used ordinary scaled down pike tackle to catch zander deliberately and failed miserably. That scenario of striking into nothing is a painful reminder.

I think I will try one haired bait and one without to see whats what this autumn /winter.

PS I read somewhere that lamprey was a good zander bait. Anyone tried it?

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

What size hooks given I will probably be using half a dead 3oz roach to start?

One hook or as a pal suggested, mini treble in top and single in tail.

Strike as soon as a tremble or let it move off? Quiver tip or Avon?

 

[S-Kippy]

PS I read somewhere that lamprey was a good zander bait. Anyone tried it?

Oh yes. My second favourite bait behind roach.Very hard to come by last year though. Dunno why.

For what its worth my OBH rigs are dead simple....single size 6 on a free running rig. Baits hair rigged except for roach tails which I hook through the root. Sometimes use a double single hook rig especially if Im fishing roach head sections. I hit all positive movements on the indicators as soon as.....wind hard and lift. I believe people do quiver tip for them but I've never felt the need to. As liitle resistance as poss is the way at BH.

But Bury Hill is not the Severn.

 

[The bad one]

Here are my thoughts on your questions asked based on zander fishing on the Fens over a 6 year period some years ago.

Bait in order of preference and catch results - Dace, gudgeon, rudd, roach, nothing bigger than 4 inches and all deadbaited, freshly kill and frozen as quick as is possible. Never used livebait for Zander, as they always seem to attract the attention of pike on the Fens, as my fishing partner at the time can testify. I had the Zeds, he had the pike on the livies
I tried all manner of different rigs from two single hooks through VB two double hook rigs and standard scaled down pike rigs. Many of which I found had a tendency to deep hook the end hook in the fish and past the throat teeth, irrespective of how quick or slow you timed the strike. Zander are not robust creatures and don’t take a great deal of knocking about with disgougers and forceps, as like perch their swimblader is located very close to the throat and back of the head.

Here’s my cautionary note, If you can’t unhook pike through the gill rakers successfully, then don’t go fishing for Zander because as sure as eggs are eggs, you’ll deep hook a fish and more than likely have a dead fish on your hands. I’m not proud of having to say this, but between my fishing partner and I, we lost a couple schoolies appox 3lb apace in the early days of Zed fishing. Both of us were very experienced pike anglers of many years before we went Zandering.
The amount of deep hooking really concerned me and many rigs and hooking methods were tried to reduce it. The one I settled on was a semi-barbless single treble, size 8s, to the wire trace. The hooking arrangement was thus – the hook was attached to fish a third of the way down from the tail end and a couple of turns of tread were wound on at the root of the tail to make it more secure.
The reason for this hooking arrangement was, I notice with deads, the Zeds were taking them head first. By leaving 2/3 of the fish hookless, the thinking was and it turned out to be so, it would allow the fish to take in the bait to or just past the throat teeth without deep hooking it.

A word on the throat teeth of Zeds, they are two very large oval plates 5 cm X 3cm in size on a double figure fish and have a vice like grip. It’s my view that the teeth are pulverising mechanism that mashes the food up before it passes to the stomach for digestion.

My Set up was to set the rods quite high (2 ½ ft back rod rests, 18 inch front) with the tips pointing downward. Standard buzzer on the front rests with lightish bobbins attached again on the front rests. I prefer to space the rod rests out, so the front one is up against the second ring up the rod from the butt. This allows you to hang the bobbins between the butt ring and second ring. Fished like this, it give you a perfect V for the bobbins to travel in and with the height of the rods a lot of near resistance free travel. I’ll be honest here, I hate the modern carping way of having the bobbins fished between the reel and the butt ring.

 

[Graham Daubney]

Hi everyone, a long time since I've posted but just like to say that in cold weather I've done well on seabaits for zander. I've had a lot of big fen fish on them and lately I've had a few from the Trent on them. I know a lot of people think they're a waste of time but not from my experience.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Thanks for the advice chaps.

The bad one. Thanks especially.

Trying tomorrow.
Graham

 

[thecrow]

Hi everyone, a long time since I've posted but just like to say that in cold weather I've done well on seabaits for zander. I've had a lot of big fen fish on them and lately I've had a few from the Trent on them. I know a lot of people think they're a waste of time but not from my experience.

My one and only double came on half mackerel while pike fishing.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Just to let you know managed my first Zed today.

Not big but bucket list size. Ie one.

Thanks all help

 

[Philip]

First of all, congratulations Graham on the first Zander.

Good thread this ...i like Binka and Bad ones descriptions in particular of how they setup & fish..very detailed, well explained and informative.

I have a question...

Any advice for setups for fishing lives for Zander in fast flowing water anyone ?

I have never really felt comfortable with any rigs or setup I have used in these situations…I usually go with a sunken float paternoster type of arrangement but never really had one I have been totally happy with.

I have also messed around with a running lead and live bait popped up by polyball tied to the hook so the bait is fishing directly above the lead and using the bobbins weight to pull the trace and bait down into position so the trace swivel is tight to the lead but again not totally happy with this.

My struggle is always around bite indication in fast flowing water…I don’t like fishing off a bait runner for Zander hence I prefer to have a bobbin with a drop but then you have the flow to contend with as well as the pull of the bait itself trying to swim off, so its always a trade off between weight of bobbin and strength of flow (which of course is never constant)..the end result is either you underload the bobbins and they keep creeping up or you over load them and cause too much resistance.

Perhaps there is no perfect solution …any ideas ?

I’ll be honest here, I hate the modern carping way of having the bobbins fished between the reel and the butt ring.

[FONT=&quot]..Oh boy me too…cant stand it ….sorry but bobbins should be fished between two rod rings to get the "V" you mentioned ...just as I did as a nipper with my washing up liquid bottle cap as the bobbin..[/FONT]

 

[binka]

I have a question...

Any advice for setups for fishing lives for Zander in fast flowing water anyone ?

I usually float paternoster as opposed to sunken float paternoster in flowing water, I'm never that confident that the flow is just knocking over a sunken float.

Might be worth a try either with a fixed or sliding surface float in deeper water, there's usually enough angle between the float and the rod tip ,if you have it up high, to give some leeway when you get a take so you can be on it before it starts to feel too much resistance.

I don't think the resistance thing, or fluctuation in resistance, is such an issue in fast water.

The only other thing I tend to do is single hook the livebait through the tail as it will naturally try and swim away from the paternoster which cuts tangles down to practically zero.

Not sure if any of that helps but I do think the surface float is worth a try with the paternoster, especially as it does away with bobbins and the rod tip for indication.

 

[Philip]

I usually float paternoster as opposed to sunken float paternoster in flowing water, I'm never that confident that the flow is just knocking over a sunken float.

Might be worth a try either with a fixed or sliding surface float in deeper water, there's usually enough angle between the float and the rod tip ,if you have it up high, to give some leeway when you get a take so you can be on it before it starts to feel too much resistance.

I don't think the resistance thing, or fluctuation in resistance, is such an issue in fast water.

The only other thing I tend to do is single hook the livebait through the tail as it will naturally try and swim away from the paternoster which cuts tangles down to practically zero.

Not sure if any of that helps but I do think the surface float is worth a try with the paternoster, especially as it does away with bobbins and the rod tip for indication.

Thanks Binka, actually I only started using sunken float paternosters fairly recently ...I actually changed from the surface float paternoster. For a long time that was my first choice method...but the problem I had was the floats kept gradually dragging under. I had to keep upping the float size to keep them on the surface. In the end I decided to go with the flow (no pun intended) and just fish them sunken...but as you rightly say this then means you need another form of bite indication like bobbins plus as you mention you now have no visual indication of how far the float is keeling over.

I am happy to stick on a big float to keep it on the surface if I'm after Pike but for Zander it just does not look right to me ..although as you say its probably not that important in the faster water.

Whats your (or anyone elses) thoughts on depths to fish at ? ....most information says fish the baits on or near the bottom and that does seem to work well enough but interested if anyone has other views on it. In addition is there any such thing as a preferred feeding depth ? ...should we be looking for swims of a certain depth or are people getting them at all sorts from margins to deepest holes....

 

[binka]

As you have found out the float paternoster can be a fine balance in fast water between weight of lead, float size and how much over depth you set it to counter the current although I would rather up the float and lead size than over set the depth as bites can sometimes only show as a slight "bob" with the extra on, I've gone up to 5oz in the past and had no problems at all on the take.

I reckon zander feed at whatever level the bait fish are sitting at but I tend to set my baits within a few inches of the bottom as I find it deters pike for some unbeknown reason

 

[Philip]

Its interesting we have seemed to have reached similar conclusions in our fishing ...i would also rather up the size that increase the depth.

I also dont mind using a very big lead as long as the setup allows the fish a very free running pull direct to the float...so the lead becomes the sort of fixed pivot point and the take pulls the to the float....I used John Roberts paternosters for a long time which do this and for Pike I think they are ok but I was concerned the plastic tube the line pulls through creates too much resistance. I tied a smaller home made version which worked ok but again not perfect....for a start if you shorten the tube, you increase the tangles.

I have also played around with the idea of fishing a sort of tiny Dumbell rig ...a sort of mini version of the Catfish rigs...I like the concept allot but got fed up trying to make one up ...too much glue and cork bits everywhere but I think there might be milage in it.

I get the feeling Pike like to lie lower and strike upwards but the Zander is more of a chasing fish like a Perch so attacks can occur more parrallel to the bottom (if that makes sense !)

 

[binka]

I've got to admit that I'm lost on the dumbbell rig although I've never bought a paternoster, those booms just look a bit odd to me and to be fair I really don't think they are that necessary.

I'm sure this will resemble many already out there but this is my own rig diagram...



I like to keep the paternoster trace to around 4" and although there's nothing "stiff" in the rig I rarely if ever get a tangle.

I started using it with micro swivels and fluorocarbon instead of wire for perch where there was little chance of a pike coming along but it's proved quite effective with the zander.

 

[Philip]

I've got to admit that I'm lost on the dumbbell rig although I've never bought a paternoster, those booms just look a bit odd to me and to be fair I really don't think they are that necessary.

I'm sure this will resemble many already out there but this is my own rig diagram...



I like to keep the paternoster trace to around 4" and although there's nothing "stiff" in the rig I rarely if ever get a tangle.

I started using it with micro swivels and fluorocarbon instead of wire for perch where there was little chance of a pike coming along but it's proved quite effective with the zander.

Nice one. Thanks for posting that.

The home made paternosters I made where not so different to yours. The only difference being I put a boom into the setup to try and avoid any fish taking the bait pulling at both the float and the lead.

Its not easy to describe what I mean but I will try …on your diagram imagine your top most red bead is a ledger bead so one of those running beads but with a lug on it you can tie line onto.. …if your rotten bottom is tied to the lug and then the main line passes through the ledger bead and you tie your trace swivel to that and remove the float stop.

If a fish now takes the bait its going to pull line through the ledger bead against the fixed point which is the lead (..big lead..) and direct to the float. In theory it means the lead stays in place and the float does all the moving. The taking fish does not actually feel the lead…only the float.

Not sure if I described that well enough but perhaps you can see what I am getting at.

Yep, with you on the flurocarbon...I dont have allot of Pike where I fish plus lots of Cats so fluro is a good trace. Interested in the 4 inches...I usually fish longer ones but get tangles so have considered going shorter ...I may now do that based on what your saying.