help with zeds

[chris renwick]

does any 1 ne know a good fen drain to get a few zeds from had 1 out of the trent but carnt seem 2 find them any more any help would be great

 

[Paul H]

Never fished the Fens but as far as I know they are all over, it is just a case of finding them.

They are more nomadic than pike and travel in groups, a day spent searching for the shoaled-up silverfish will help.

I'd get out prepared to walk with either a float rod and some bread/maggots or with a lure rod.

 

[andy mercer]

Ive always found it tough for the old zeds at this time of year. Im pretty sure they group together when it gets really cold and its all about location.

The drains can all be hard going in the proper depths of winter and i believe that your best chances are in town centre stetches just fishing into darkness. Im gonna have a bash in late feb/march when temps are up a bit and the Zeds start packing on a bit of beef.

 

[tony brooks 3]

my last few trips have been pants so good luck, a few pike about to keep you interested

hope things improve soon, perhpas after this cold spell but i'll be trying this weekend, i would say head for a bit of water with a decent flow andand try a bit of leap frogging

good luck

 

[Brute1981]

The recent cold snap really seems to havemadeZander hard work lately. I blanked at Bury Hill today as did about 10 other anglers (half the lake was frozen!) and that place probably has more Zeds per square foot of water than anywhere else in the country. Back in October and NovemberI couldn't stop catching there. I'll probably put the Zander fishing on hold until early March unless we get some warmer weather.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

I might be in the minority here, but I've actually found that zeds will oftenbe one of the last fish in the drain/riverstill feeding in those truely brutal freezing conditions. I'd put them alongside grayling and chub in that respect. In fact the harder it freezes the better, as long as the venue doesn't develop a lid. You might catch more zander in easier conditions, but you'll not have as good a chance of a big one IMO.

And I'll definitely be in the minority here in suggesting that you consider sea baits as an alternative to coarse deads, especially for the bigger zeds, and particularly in the hard conditions.

Don't let the 'experts' convince you otherwise, try a half herring or a sardine as an alternative for a few trips and I can almost guarantee you'll catch on them. Once you do you'll realise that they are every bit as effective as a coarse dead-bait. And often more so for the bigger zeds in the venue.

 

[Coxy]

I can't think of a fen drain or river that doese'nt hold zander, the Gt Ouse is a good starting point.

I'vepicked up the oddzander in freezing conditions while piking in daylight many times in the past, never done very well on sea baits though, landed two in twenty eight years. Thats not to say thatsea baitsdon't work thoughbecause i know a couple of blokes who have done realy well on them.

 

[eel611]

Chris, get yersel' a KLAA card and the worlds yer lobster!

 

[Steve Younger]

I wouldn't call myself an "expert" but I can say that of the literally many hundreds of zander I have caught, none have come on sea baits. I am not saying they don't work because they do, but more so on stillwaters& heavily pike fished waters, where sea baits are used a lot & thrown in the end of a session as prebait. I really can't see the point of making it harder for yourself than it already is. I always use good quality, decent sized livebaits & fresh killed dead coarse baits, but am happy to use frozen eel section.

I would suggest that if daytime fishing you go for coloured water with a flow, ie Gt Ouse etc. Look for feeding grebes or cormorants & fish to the sides of these. Invariably they are feeding in the middle of bait fish shoals where your bait would bethe needle in the haystack, so fish say 30 to 70 metres away from the birds & this should put your baits on or near the edge of the shoal, where you stand more chance of a take, however if no takes come after say 20 to 30 minutes then leapfrog the drain towards the feeding birds & past them until you do contact fish. Also fish very tight to the bottom of the shelf as this is where the zeds seem to patrol in cold & flowing conditions.

I also agree on town centre stretches (Ely OUse, March Old Nene etc) and for nights fish near but not too close to bridges & structures. This is not gospel, & is my opinion only, no doubt others will see it differently I'm sure but this works for me & I do zander fish more than most throughout the winter, going 2 or mostly 3 nights a week.

 

[David Marrs]

I agree with Chris, I've caught Zander in absolutely hideous freezing conditions and believe they will feed no problems IF you canlocate themdeep in Winterand plonk a bait on top of them. It's the finding them that's the realdrama! Obviously prey fish play a big part and as Steve says, a lot of fish move into town centre's in the Winter and the preds follow them so towns are always a decent place to start out.

A couple of friends and I fished for the last 2 months of the 2001/2 season against a feature on the Middle Level and we had Zander and Pike out every weekend rain, snow, hail, frost or shine (one Saturday it did all of this). It was actually quite a prolific time for winter as we were all getting at least half a dozen runs a weekend in mid Jun / Feb - enjoyable stuff. The thing was, the runs would come at all times during the day or night. I reckon we'd found a stack of Zeds all laid up for winter.

We were lucky that year in that we found them, most years its a real struggle I find. In fact I was out tonight on one of my favourite drains and in a spot I know usually holds fish but despite the South Westerly, an air temp of 6 - 7degrees and two lovely lives and a nice fat dead, not a bleep!

At this time of year I've done ok daytime fishing mobile deadbaiting but covering a lot of water, I reckonthis just bears out the location theory - sooner or later if you keep moving, you'll put a bait on a Zeds nose and it'll take.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

Steve,

I'm more than willing toaccept thatyou've spent more time than me fishing forthe species, but can obviously only relate to my own experiences, on a variety of the southern fenland waters.

I'd be interested to hear what logic you would attribute to the idea that sea-baits would be any less appealing to zander? Over on the continent, where I think it's fair to say they have even greater experience of the species, Diedrick Poot has told me in the past that herrings are the main target prey of zeds in the waters where both species occur.

I don't think the idea that they grow to like them on waters where pike anglers regularly discard bait holds any water. Why would a zander ignore such a bait until it had seen them on a regular basis? Why would subsequent generations of zander thenknow that they were a legitimate food source?

I've caught enough zeds on sea-baits in my time to know that they are a good option. In purely practical terms I believe they offer an advantage over coarse baits. How often have you targhetted zeds with sea-baits?

Not looking for a row, but I do think your views on this topicare mistaken. /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

 

[Steve Younger]

The Dutch fish you are talking about are obviously in brackishto salty water (which zander can survive & even thrive in)due to the presence of herring, because they certainly don't live in fresh water,therefore they must have been a constant food source for many many years, so there is no comparison to Fenland zander, unless you know a drain where herrings are & have been present for a thousand years !

I can't comment on your catching zander on sea baits, all I can say is that in the last 25+ years of fishing the drains for pike & zander I have never caught a single zander on sea baits, so for myself I would be mad to use them when I have perfectly good lives & fresh deads in plenty.The only "sea bait" I would even contemplate using for zander is the smelt as they do run up the Fenland rivers, but even saying this I don't use them & probably never will. As I said earlier, I can see no point in making it harder than it already is.

As for logic re sea baits being less appealing to zander, I have none & don't really care. I just know they are not productive for me so I don't use them & thats all I care about.Herrings and zander are not& have never been a constant & indiginous food source for zander, where fresh fish, eels etc have sothis is what I use. If they are used to, & quitehappy eating fresh fish why use something they don't see swimmim g around & aren't used to eating. Zander are not tackle or bait shy & eat live & dead frsh fish every day so why change ??

If it works for you then great, carry on using them but it's certainly not for me &I wouldn't advise other novicestouse them,butcertainly wouldn't ever saythey won't catch on them. As I wrote in my book, with zander there are no rules.

Further to this, if it's not broken why fix it ??

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

Of course those zander are in brackish water. A predatory fish doesn't have to be used to seeing a prey fish in order to attack it, otherwise neither lures, goldfish or carp live-baits would get taken, and obviouslythey do.

Agree to differ I guess.

 

[Steve Younger]

Yes agreed but when was the last time you saw or used a live herring on the drains??

Each to his own for sure, after all it would be a boring world if we were all the same. Thoroughly enjoyed your response & all the best in your zandering. Maybe one day you will show me how you catch on sea baits.

Regards: Steve

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

"Yes agreed but when was the last time you saw or used a live herring on the drains??"

A difficult point to contest.

No harm in a little healthy debate. I have always held your knowledge of zeds and success with the speciesin the highest regard. I'm glad you aren't affronted by my posts. /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

 

[paraman the pre-hospital care qualified blanker]

Steve,I absolutely respect your point of view and have to say,I too, have never had a zander on a seabait and am at the point where I would only use coarse lives or deads.

However, following your argument about indigenous prey fish, I would love to hear your rationale as to why so many pike get caught on sea baits? Surely the same rule would apply to them? As so many do, and my own experience with two rods for pike is to use two different sea baits (usually a start with a sardine and a smelt - even ifI have fresh coarse deads with me) to start, you would think that zander would also pick them up.

Could it be more a case of sight feeding v. scent feeding?

 

[Steve Younger]

Chris: Not affronted at all. Whether or not we agree or not I am always willing learn, & if someone is catching on a method or bait I don't usually use then I certainly wouldn't discount it out of hand just because I hadn't thought of it. I am not good enough or arrogant enough to believe that no one can teach me anything. I have learned from kids in Africa using a twig & a nail so I am sure I can learn from these debates.

Re the pike argument, you have got me there ! I use both fresh & sea baits for pike but far more sea baits & I don't know why they work, they just do. Don't think the sight V smell argument works though as too many variables in water clarity , flows, etc etc. Again, I do what works for me. Prob not clever enough to think it all the way through but not too dumb to realise that if it works use it !!

 

[David Marrs]

A mate of mine, who's been fishing the Fens since the 60'shad a blinding spell for Zander on one of the venues a few years back fishing Herring. Fishing in a very mobile fashion, his theory was that the bigger, possibly slower fish would pick them up and certainly if my memory serves me correctly he had a dozendoubles (to just under 15lbs) in the last 6 - 8 weeks of that particular season and something like 10 or 11 of them came to Herring.

I wasn't sold until the following year, when I had a couple of months at the back end of a season fishing a different venue with him and having landed a Zed of about 7lbs on a dead roach whilst 'mobile deadbaiting' he said, 'if you had been using Herring, that would have been a bigger fish' - half an hour later he landed the first double I'd ever seen from that particularwater at 10lb 8ozon a large headless Herring.

 

[David Marrs]

Unfortunately I haven't had theability to mount a properend of season campaign over the last 3 or 4 years where I could properly put the time in and achieve some consistent results (either for or against!) butfor the few occasions I have tried this method, I have managed ahandful ofZander on Herring and they do seem to be the bigger fish, all of the ones I have had on Herring have been 8lb+ (on avenue not exactly famed for a heritage of massive Zander). Now I am not saying I'm going to head to the level for a weekend and throw 3 Herrings out but there is something in it I think.

I am not trying to be provocative or whatever but as a committed Zander angler, I reckon that there may be something in this subject, whether it be time of year, venue, size of fish, presentation, conditions or whatever. I reckon that the use of seabaits is a subject that would need a brave man to spend a season at least looking into it - I have to say, that whilst there may well be something in this it would take a confident bloke to fish them for Zander for a full year round. My (somewhat limited) experience on this is fairly inconclusive as yet.

Incidentally, my mate landed his first double figure Zed from the R Channel in 1972 and is also on the "Fenland 30's" - he knows his stuff.

 

[Coxy]

I find the subject of zander being caught by designonsea baitsquite fascinating, mainlybecause i have tried for many years myself regularlyfishing wellinto darkness on many different waters from September through to Marchwith both sea & fresh water baits hopefully targeting both pike & zander& have failed. On the two occasions i have caught zanderon sea deadswereunintentionaly while piking.

Yet despite this i have witnessed two other anglers landfive zanderon mackeral & herringhalf baits by design on a strech of water i fished regularly at the time.... Figure that one out?