Pike Gag

[Lee Bowen]

Do any of you use a pike gag to help in the unhooking of pike? I got talking to my next door neighbour's oldest lad and a couple of his friends. They where going pike fishing on the bit of water i go to. They had no unhooking tools other than a disgorges, only using 5lbs mono, no mat, no trace, but they had been to the local tackle shop told the bloke they were going pike fishing and he sold them all pike gags.
Now I’m not sure if they are legal to use or not, but i said to the lads that they shouldn't be going pike fishing without line less than 12lbs, wire trace, forceps and if they didn't have an unhooking mat use an old baby changing mat. Now i might not be the most experienced lure fisherperson but I have learned quite a lot from Charlie about fish handling etc and offered to show they how to unhook without a gag etc. I have yet to go into the tackle to ask about the gags but i shall do.

What are peoples comments?

 

[Chris Bishop]

You don't need them - if anything, they make it harder to unhook a fish as its mouth clenches on the gag leaving you little room to work in.

I can't believe shops still sell them, there again you still see people using them up here.

 

[Lee Bowen]

I can't beleive that the chap sold them to kids, well i can it's money in his till. Infact i don't think they would fit in 75% of the pikes mouths as they are mostly jacks up to about8-9lbs with the odd 15lbs+.

 

[Gerry Castles]

If the shop assistant is anything like the ones in my local shops, he will not have a clue about what's on and what's not in pike fishing. To the non-piking fishing fraternity, gags are part and parcel of the sport like enormous pike bungs, cheap imported spoons that rust, counting slowly to ten before striking a biting fish and always knocking it on the head when caught.

 

[Lee Bowen]

My local tackle shop is geared for the match and prac anglers. Bloke told me i was daft for using barbless hooks on my lures and for crushing the barbs on my lures.

 

[Stuart Wilson]

Long discussion on gags on Pike 'n' Predator message board. Some quite interesting comments

 

[Chris Bishop]

My local tackle dealer has big problems persuading some people to buy "proper" forceps etc...

 

[Dave Kennedy]

i replied to this topic on pike "n! preadators.

The EA in our region would like to see Pike gags banned. but there is no rule against it in local bylaws. it can only be changed by writing and getting it debated at the fisheries depts.

like chris i found when i first used one, after being sold it as a must have item of pike fishing tackle many years ago that it hindered not helped me in unhooking pike.

education is the only way to go forward, many anglers who target Pike with incorect tackle do so because it is often the easiest way of getting a plus 10lb fish, or they have had pike take fish from them as they have reeled in. so they try to catch the "nucance" fish.

our own club is trying to address this problem, we made a rule at the AGM that pike can only be targeted by angler with proper release gear, ie;forceps etc. and pike gags are banned.

we are also holding an open weekend on our water as part of national fishing week on August 10th & 11th ( the week before the official start of NFW )Denis Moules of the PAC will be giving a presentaion on pike fishing Saturday and Sunday at 10am for anyone who is interested. we are mainly targeting the kids but anyone is welcome.

The Environment agency will be there on the sunday with their exhibition trailer explaining what they do for fishing and fisheries in our area.
the LAS will also be there on the sunday.

on the Saturday we are having a match for the kids from 11 till 2 so if any of you are in the area and want to bring your kids along you are welcome.

full details of the weekend can be found on our club web site.
http://www.homestead.com/cambridgeuniversityangli/comefishng.html

 

[Dave Silvers]

If I may, can we broaden this discussion to include unhooking matters generally and in particular deep hooked fish.
Yes it can happen even in winter and when striking striaght away.
Can anyone give advice on dealing with deep hooked fish, i'm talking about when the bottom treble can't be seen.
Also i've read about long handled wire cutters, does anyone know where these are available and is it acceptable to cut the hook into small pieces if it can't be removed. Bearing in mind there's a time factor involved in getting the fish back in the water and also a limit to how much pulling can be done on the trace to make the hooks visible.
Many magazines etc touch on the subject of deep hooking but i've not seen one yet that doesn,t talk in general terms and is prepared to give realistic, advice however unpalatable it may be.

 

[Dave Kennedy]

Hi Dave
have a look at the PAC site, click on the fishing tips and there is an article on deep hooking.
http://www.pacgb.com/

 

[Stuart Bullard]

This is my first foray into the predator forum and I cannot believe what I am reading!

I was convinced that Pike gags were now illegal, obviously not. They bloody well should be......

 

[Dave Silvers]

have a look at the PAC site,

Thanks for the info Dave, its nice to be able to get some real advice for a change. As you probably guessed I got into a deep hooked situation last year, Ive been pike fishing for about 4 years but this was the first time I couldn't get at the bottom hook. Believe it or not I'd followed the advice given to the letter, including pulling the trace with my teeth. A bit like putting your head in a lion's mouth, but desperate situations produce desperate measures. Again I ask the question about long handled side cutters and hope someone can let me know where to obtain a pair, as standard 'electricians side cutters' don't have the reach required, even when going through the gill cover.

Again thanks for the information and I've bookmarked the PAC site.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

Dave, I have seen long handled cutters for sale in the States..mail order through Bass Pro or Cabellas. In the UK I am sure I have seen them advertised in The Tackle Box in Kent and from Dave Lumb Tackle.

 

[Dave Silvers]

Thanks Rob

I'll try and track those down.
Last thing I want to do is staet cutting up hooks, but it pays to ready for the worst.

 

[Chris Bishop]

No problem with cutting a hook in an emergency as long as you can get the bits out.

A lot of lure anglers do it because it's faster with bigger barbed hooks on lures, but the points of their hooks are almost always in the mouth area in view.

I also think a pike with just a hook point in it stands a lot more chance than one with its throat stapled.

You can convert some side cutters cheaply by putting some piping over the handles to lengthen them.

If you're going in through the gills and turning the hooks out, it helps to make sure you use strong forceps which lock tightly when you clamp down on the hook.

I've also seen a home-made attachment a bit like a giant paperclip, with a felt pad you can grip with your teeth to keep the trace tight, leaving both hands free if fishing alone.

 

[Dave Silvers]

Chris

My feelings exactly. Small hook segments must give the fish a better chance than a treble in the throat.

Has anybody got any experience of the 'deep throat pike disgorger' made by John Roberts abd advertised in Coarse Fisherman of all magazines.

 

[Eric Edwards]

The deep throat pike disgorger is an excellent tool but it has a fatal flaw. If the pike is hooked deeply on the bottom hook, it is necessary to push this hook further down in order to remove it with a "DTPD". This can, on occasions, cause the top hook to become lodged, thus making the problem worse. This can be overcome in one of two ways;
1. Use two DTPDs with the upper one masking the top treble while the lower one takes out the deep hook.
2. Cut off the hook points of the upper hook before attempting to remove the lower one. This, of course, brings you back to the long handled side cutter issue.

I haven't had a deep hooked pike in years now and I put that down to one thing. Having caught plenty of pike, some of them quite big, I no longer HAVE to catch. Consequently, I have no worries about striking early.

Eric

 

[Rob Stubbs]

I was pretty sure that pike gags were outlawed - perhaps in the latest byelaw review (?). It's possible that this hasn't yet become law, or equally possible that the EA aren't fully aware of all the legislation. I will see if I can track it down.

Also if barbless trebles were used unhooking would be far easier than trying to unhook barbed trebles. I used to use fully barbed but you free one point and another one snags etc.

Rob.

Rob.

 

[ron lander]

I am new to pike/zander fishing (only been once so far so am a total novice and am looking at this to enable me to look after pike/zander with the same care I give all other fish. What I would ask is, is it really necessary to use two trebles? Would using one treble or two single hooks work?

On my one and only visit (last friday and I will be going most fridays in future because this is the only river where I can take the dog. fishing = dog walking!) I used jelly worms and they only have a single hook, let alone six! (i.e two trebles). And on these I will only ever use a barbles hook. My deadbait rig (which admittedly I have not used yet) uses a single barbless hook. Self imposed a barbed hook ban on myself 22 years ago.

What would be the outcry if people started fishing for carp or barbel with boilie paste wrapped around a treble hook? Whats the difference between that and using trebles for predatory fish?

The design of plugs and livebaiting terminal tackle needs some inovative thinking to drag it into this century. It would benefit from a better public image and the fish would live longer.

I was also under the impression that the EA had banned gags.

 

[Chris Bishop]

Ron,

There's loads of advice available both on here and the Pike Anglers Club website. The PAC also do a brilliant book Piking Beyond 2000, which covers basic rigs, bite indication, fish handling etc.

Most of us use trebles for live/dead-baiting because they offer the most convenient way of ensuring that a bait which could weigh several ounces stays on the hooks and you have a reasonable chance of hooking a fish with a quick strike.

I've flirted with single hook rigs and I'm still trying to perfect one on and off. The big problem - which I haven't managed to get around yet - is that the hook gets flattened against the side of the bait when a fish picks it up, giving you next to no chance of getting a hookhold when you wind down on a taking fish.

I also use barbed hooks a lot more now, having lost a couple of big fish which rolled off barbless ones.

I don't know whereabouts you are, but the PAC has branches just about everywhere and I'm sure one of your local lot would be happy to have a day out to show you the basic rigs and how to deal with a fish on the bank.

Bigger hooks on lures don't tend to be so much of a problem, because the fish tend to be hooked in the mouth.

Having said this there are lures with potential to cause problems, esp the Bulldawg type, which tend to staple their mouths and can be a nightmare to get out, and lures which have too many hooks.

Rubbers are great to start off with because they catch plenty of fish and you can rig them up with just a big single, which is a cinch to turn out of a fish.