Screw down Reel seat

[Tee-Cee]

Does adding a new reel seat to an existing rod affect the balance of the rod in any way?

By that I mean how critical is the positioning of the new(fixed)reel seat.......because once done its done for life as far as I can see!

I realise that fixing the reel to the rod(with the old style loose rings)was never an exact science but does having the new seat positioned(say)10mm either way make any difference at all to the balance(or indeed the action of the rod particularly with short though action type rods)??

Its probably all hyperthetical anyway.............

 

[Mark Wintle]

TeeCee,

The short answer is No it doesn't affect the balance or action of the rod. Unless you're one of the very few anglers who attach a reel a foot from the end of the butt then hold it a foot above the reel that is.

The balance of a float rod is often more affected by loading in the end of the butt; Normarks often had a rubber butt cap that weighs more than on ounce.

That said and done it's important to work out beforehand exactly where to position the new fitting; with a float rod that's going to be near the top of the handle with modern rods that have relatively short handles compared to the often very long handles on some fibreglass rods.

 

[S-Kippy]

I suppose it might but only if it was significantly out and then you have the reel to factor in too. You would have to play around with the fitting and the reel most likely to be used before deciding on a final position but I doubt small variances either way would be noticed. I have only one rod where I think the fitting is too far forward and adversely affects the balance but the handle on that rod is IMO too long as well. Shame...because its a wonderful rod in all other respects and it wasn't a cheap one either so the best builders dont always get it right.

And then there is the human factor.I dont have arms/wrists like a gorilla so balance matters more to me than those that do.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Thanks for posting the pictures Mark.

I would think that you would know how the rod feels balance wise as it is now and all you would need to do is to record a measurement from the butt ring to the reel shaft and make sure your new mounting duplicates this measurement.

After that you might consider if you wish to shorten or even lengthen the handle and finally if you wish to add any weight to change the balance.

In my opinion it is better to leave an overly long handle alone if you are going to add weight. You will require a lot less weight to achieve the same effect if it is at the end of a longer handle.

I once added weight to two identical cheap 'glass baitcasters to improve the balance.

On the first I used a large, heavy, nut and bolt to get what I needed. On the second I just used a small bolt, screwed into a wine bottle cork. About a third of the weight, but two inches further from the reel seat.

The action of the rods is near identical, but the lighter one is nicer to use for baitcasting where you are doing so much casting. Both rods are nicer to use, more accurate and less tiring than they were originally, so I guess when it comes to weight less is more if you can add distance too.

( does that make any sense at all? )


On the subject of handles, if you do lengthen one, Hopkins and Holloway sell the evo foam tubing to hide your work. It'll turn a bankstick into a short handle for your landing net head too, if you are going wading

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

Positioning of the new seat is relatively easy and dictated by the old handle, as far as I was concerned.

(I did an article on all of this for Coarse Angling Mag, but I don't know what happened to my copy, I didn't keep it obviously.)

OK, you get the new real seat and assemble it along with a typical reel that you will use, this will give you the normal usable length of the seat.

Line up the top of the new seat with the top of the old handle and pencil a mark on the old corks where the new seat will come. Having done that, remove the reel from the new seat and unscrew the real seat as far as it will go before coming off.

Now line the new reel seat up this time with the pencil mark on the corks and see how much further beyond the old cork handle the new one will go. Note: are there any other decoritive whippings to get in the way or are you going to strip everything down to the blank?

Now it's up to you, do you cut away the corks down to that pencil mark or take it a little bit further down. It's your decision, but try to do it to the next cork section lower down so you get a clean cut (possibly).


On the old Shimano rod I did, the handle was enormous and I cut about 4 inches off the bottom, also stripped soem corks off the bottom and fitted a new Duplon grip in place of it. This made the rod a little bit lighter, so just before fixing the Duplon grip in its place, I Araldite'd a small light bomb (6 grams if I remember) in the blank, making sure it was well sealed in. The rod was perfectly balanced if not 4" shorter, albeit, the usable length of the rod was the very same.

 

[Alan Tyler]

Whatever did happen to John Roberts' "Reel-fits"? They were the mutt's ornaments.
Fixed reel-seats aren't much cop when it rains and you want to put the reel on sideways to help keep the line downwind of the rod, or to use a 'pin flat with the rings down, or to change the balance of the outfit, or to effectively shorten the butt to stop it getting in the way.
If reel-fits could be re-jigged with splints - like top-end brass ferrules - and threaded to take a knurled collar, and the splints given a reverse taper, so that as you screwed the collar ooutwards, it forced them to grip the cork, I reckon a lot of us would soon be retro-fitting ... those who still float-fish, anyway.

 

[Wag]

What fitting is that exactly ? Is it the H&H "match" type I mentioned earlier ?

It's an 18mm KDPS Match fitting from Hopkins and Holloway. The cork fitting is in the Corks section, but they seem a bit expensive at £13+ extra.

 

[S-Kippy]

It's an 18mm KDPS Match fitting from Hopkins and Holloway. The cork fitting is in the Corks section, but they seem a bit expensive at £13+ extra.

Lovely job...that is precisely the fellow that I ordered earlier.

13 nicker for a bit of cork The footpads !

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Apparently the best Portugese cork is a bit rare these days.
I wonder if the trees have been grubbed out because so many wine manufacturers have switched to plastic 'corks' or screw caps?

Drennan do some nice rubber/cork particle composite grips. I wonder if they might be persuaded to sell it in sections?

 

[Bob Gill]

Reconstituted Cork

Decent cork is 'orribly expensive.
Reconstituted cork can be bought quite a few types - but mostly as single shives. Different colours, burnt cork and mixes giving a flecked appearance. It's more hard wearing than ordinary cork but also heavier.
I use it on potential wear areas.

Bob

 

[Mark Wintle]

A couple of things:

Adding weight to the end of a float rod does help the balance but you are adding to the weight of the rod. Also it was reckoned that if you're fishing really fine with little hooks then the weight in the butt can give a little 'kick' when you strike that can bump the fish. I forget which top angler pointed this out but he reckoned that striking with a match rod was a bit like using a hammer and than controlling the strike was a vital part of using a rod especially with fine line. He said that you wouldn't counterbalance a hammer so why do a rod? I experimented a lot in the past with this and do better without the counterweights. On Normarks I replace the heavy butt cap with a plain cork. all too often counterweights are hiding top heavy rods. The Normarks are much better than that so don't need it.

Regarding swivelling fixed reel seats, you can do this with Normark II versions because there is a ferrule immediately above the handle to insert a foot long extra joint so you could off centre the rod.

 

[dezza]

A few points here based on what has been said.

A lot of my rods have a bog standard Fuji FPS screw fitting which in the case of coarse fishing rods is down locking and in the case of fly rods is uplocking with the cork covering part of the reel seat. I have never been able to understand why many rods, noteably carp rods, have uplocking reel seats making it compulsary for you to have to grip a most uncomfortable length of screw thread.

Mind you, most carp rods spend weeks sitting on a pod, so I suppose it doesn't matter.

For all my coarse rods I like a handle of about 22 inches, not too long or the whole thing becomes most uncomfortable.

The counterbalance effect described by Mark is interesting. I have a MAP 13 foot Ultra II light float rod which has seen over 5 years service on and off and has landed loads of good roach, tench to 6 1/2 lbs, carp to 10lbs, lots of big bream and rudd, and is one of the best all round float fishing rods I have ever owned.

It has a counterbalanced handle and I've never noticed any disadvantaged posed by this. I must add that the top is very soft indeed and I have used it on hook lengths down to 0.07 with 22 hooks whilst stick float fishing for crafty Idle roach.

Good quality cork is becoming harder to find. Hence the use of plastic bottle seals by the wine industry. The truth of the matter is that plastic stoppers are far better than any type of cork. They guarantee a good seal whilst cork in some cases has a habit of "weeping." However plastic wine bottle stoppers are not as "twee" as cork.

But I digress.

If you want decent cork shives I would strongly recommend you contact Steve Parton at 0115 946 3572. He carries all sorts of gear for making fly rods, including Fuji FPS reel seats, which as pointed out can also be used for coarse rod handles. He is not expensive.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

I had a dig through my rods yesterday and found two with down-locking cork grips on a seat with barely a hump.

They were a John Wilson Heritage Trotter and a John Wilson Specialist Trotter. Almost identical handles in the modern style but in cork and just a little thicker than is the norm now.

If only one could buy these handles 'loose' I'm sure they would have suited the original posters needs.



I've got too many rods. Had these two a year and never fished with them

 

[Tee-Cee]

....maybe too much money Crucian(what it is to be rich eh?).....but yesterdays budget will change all that...excess will not be tolerated!!

I expect to see a number of old rods being offered for sale to cover the cost of the fishing ticket or even a pint of maggs...!!

 

[the indifferent crucian]

It's a disease Tee Cee, I see a rod on eBay or at a tackle fair and I just HAVE to have it!

I need therapy.


I've got a delightfull Cortland spinning rod, had it 2 years...never even had a reel on it.

I've got a carp rod and a bait runner, I bought an alarm. Never used them.


I only ever fish with one rod, so why do I own about 13 float rods?

Then there's the cane rod and centrepin collection...........



NURSE !

 

[S-Kippy]

Its exactly the same with women's shoes and bags & they cant explain it either. It is just the way things are.

 

[Tee-Cee]

Crucian......don't let it get to you-in many ways I think I have always held back around buying new tackle(compared to you that is!!)in the hope of keeping cost to a minimum and I think I've missed out in a way-always wanted a split cane rod by Barder or similar for example-but never felt justified to spend the money even though I have a wife who is always encouraging me to take the plunge'......

So I think in many ways the'Nurse'(or men in white coats)could help us both....

I must keep telling myself not to be such a tightwad and loosen the purse strings-might just work one day but its getting to the tackle shop.........!!

...sort of nails down a blackboard.........

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Good grief a Barder?


How about a MARCO Test, £38, mine cost.

Or an Aspindale Suredale for the same price?


If I had a Barder I'd be too scared to take it out of the house, and as for putting it in the back of the car with the dog I mean, it's a stick, isn't it?

 

[Tee-Cee]

A stick!!!A stick!!whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!

Its a work of art Crucian!!An abso-bl**dy-lutely work of art!

A MARCO?...doesn't he play for England or something??

An Aspindale thingy..sounds like a zoo in Kent to me!!

This is where you're going wrong Crucian...all that time choosing dozens of rods,still unused by the way,when you could've been on your 2nd Barder by now......best you dump the hound though....!!

 

[the indifferent crucian]

He'd hunt me down!

I left him at home last night and he hasn't forgiven me yet.

There's a picture of a Barder rod on Gary Cullums 'Rain and Chub' article just reproduced on this very site. It do look very nice!

http://www.fishingmagic.com/index.php?news=14861