Coarse Fish Eradication In NZ

I have heard about this through a friend living in NZ. I think a few of u may be away of the bow hunting that is practiced by the "water authorites" to remove Koi from the lakes, but the poison thing is horrendous. A water near me in Scotland was posioned in 1976 to remove the pike. Even to this day the water is devoid of much life. There are no ducks, no fish and very few invertebrates.

What really get to me though, is the fact that they want to remove non native coarse fish...which, I could possibly understand IF they were causing a problem, but they are going to leave the Brown and Rainbow Trout that were also stocked in the 1800's. The Brown trout originally came from a batch of fry supplied from Loch Leven in Fife and did remarkably well in the mountain stream and rivers.

But does it make sense that Trout are ok but coarse fish are not? Yet again the Game angler wins. Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!

Australia also hase a kill carp policy, although I believe in Melbourne they have managed to overturn this stupid rule.

Surely they is something we can do hear in the UK to help out?..Any suggestions?

Originally New Zealand had few sporting fish in it's waters. Only a small number of barbus species similar to minnows.

Both trout and the other coarse fish mentioned are exotic to New Zealand. I can perhaps understand why they might want to eliminate carp, but other species like perch and rudd, No! They can easily take their place beside trout in most waters.

Carp have done a great deal of damage to the habitat of Southern African species, a part of the world that was rich in a huge variety of freshwater fish

The use of poison is criminal. We must try to help the New Zealanders stop that sort of thing.

Rob,

"Australia also hase a kill carp policy, although I believe in Melbourne they have managed to overturn this stupid rule"

Not so stupid I'm lead to beleive. Apparently the carp are seriously threatening to wipe out indigenous species like the barramundi as they take over vast areas of rivers, muddying the once clear waters with constant feeding. I can't agree with poisoning rivers but I can understand why they don't want carp in thier waterways.

Austrailians are very aware of the dangers of introducing non-indigenous species into their country, as mammals like the feral pig and cats have decimated their marsupial populations which evolved with very few natural predators.

Ron, how do carp damage waters? I have heard it said that carp dig up the bottom and cloud the water, but i imagine that they would have to be very large and very heavily stocked to do that! I lived in Asia for may years and some of the waters were stocked with Common Carp. These waters were crystal clear dispite having muddy bottoms.

Also, I have heard the New Zealanders complain that carp burrow into the river banks and cause them to collapse!!...How?? I have certainly never heard of this in any other country in the world except Australia..strange!!

i would have said Brown Trut would be the worst offenders for causing damge as they will readily eat fry of all species...and lots of it too!

Carp in warm climates first of all tend to breed very well. I have seen carp spawn up to 3 times in a summer. Carp also have the habit of eating the spawn of other species of fish, especially barbus species.

I can't speak for Asia (where carp are indigenous by the way), but in Africa, carp do tend to make waters very muddy indeed. Southern Africa also is very short of predators - true predators like pike for instance. To counter the carp problem there are American bass but even these species have their breeding nests invaded by carp in the spring months.

Brown trout and Rainbows for that matter can only survive in cool clear water. The numerous barbus species found in Africa also require clear water. It's surprizing how bass, tilapia, mudfish and yellowfish managed to live well together. Introduce carp and all you eventually end up with is carp.

Most carp in South Africa are very poor fighters by the way. Although I spaent several years fishing for them, I eventually discovered more interesting and hard fighting species.

In certain parts of Austrailia if you catch a carp it's an offence not to kill it.

The things you learn watching Rex Hunt.

Its the law of the piscatorial jungle out there mate.......yibbida, yibbida !

Joking aside, I wonder if Barry Gausden has been in touch with old Rexy. I know he's not keen on carp, and wants to protect indigenous Aussie species, but he also sees the benefit of introduced fish such as perch and trout, when properly managed. I'm sure he would be against a total cull, especially by poison!!!!!!

Rex films in New Zealand, and a well known figure in that part of the world could help the cause of NZ coarse fishing.

It seems obvious that proper management not total eradication is the answer.

I did look for an E mail address on the Rex Hunt web site, but the only contact address was postal.

Thanks to all you guys for your interesting and sensible discussion on the problem that we have down here. NZ is a fishing mecca, for all 3 codes, game, sea and coarse. Most of the coarse fish are found in the warmer parts of the upper and lower North Island where trout would not prosper. In some of the hydro lakes in the South Waikato area rudd especially seem to co-habit quite happily with the trout, and I'm sure the trout find them very tasty. All NZ coarse anglers ask is that the sport be recognised and encouraged and managed. In that way, the Fish & Game Authority can ensure that anglers are not tempted to move fish around illegally. We pay our annual licence fee like any other freshwater angler so feel we're entitled to some notice. I have fished Lake Taupo using one of the approved methods and been delighted with the bounty of the lake. I would be very disappointed if I knew that carp had been introduced there (although conditions would not suit them) but they thrive further north in the Upper Waikato and Greater Auckland area, along with rudd, tench, catfish and goldfish.

There are some questions being raised lately about the safety of Rotonone and it's effects on habitat, animals, and humans. There's some thought that it's effects can be long lasting and insidious. We are making further enquiries about this.

A bit too late though for a lake in Nelson at the top of the South Island which was recently poisoned with Rotonone following the finding of koi carp in the lake. Unfortunately for the few coarse anglers in that area, about 8-9 I think, efforts to rescue the good head of tench also in the lake was prevented by the local Fish & Game office despite approval at first by Dept of Conservation so the venue has been lost. These 2 organisations have always had trouble agreeing with each other on similar matters down here. I know that Rex Hunt has done fishing programmes in NZ but nothing on coarse fish. Once again thanks for your comments. Tight lines.

John Jossevel
Secretary NZ Federation of Coarse Anglers.

I know Rex Hunt's programmes from New Zealand have been about game fishing, but I still think he's worth a try. If NZ coarse anglers are so few and over looked you need some one high profile to fight your corner.

What does Mr&Mrs avarge Kiwi think about their goverment throwing poison around?

It's just a pitty that the likes of Ms Wendy Turner Who's her face, cant see where the real harm is being done.

Have the NZ government never heard of electro fishing? I know that it cannot clean all of the carp out - if indeed it is only carp that are considered the problem. It is a far more ecologically friendly way of dealing with alien species. Poison will merely lead to totally barren waterways devoid of life - well maybe that's a sweeping statement but I'm sure you all get my meaning. Upset one part of the chain and the rest will just topple. How long have these species all been living in harmony? Since the 1800's? Presumably NZ native species live alongside introduced coarse fish and they all now have their place on the eco ladder.

Nasty business, very nasty. As for killing carp in Australia, yes it's true. The average angler seems to hate them. I was worried sick while I was over there in case I hooked a carp because I knew damn well that I would not be able to cull it as required by law. Those Aussies are a strange lot though, the one's I knew loved to go and catch crabs all day - the crustaceans that is ;-)

It staggers me that NZ , a country that bleets(no pun intended)about being Eco friendly would allow the poisoning of the lakes.Is there someone we can write to Mr Jossevel?

Just seen the latest report. It's a bloody disgrace. Why do the NZ public put up with it!

Completely agree with the sentiments expressed. Is it not ironic that on the Rex Hunt progs he expounds that the trout fishing in NZ attracts fishing tourists from all over the world doubtlessly attracting vast sums of tourist dollars. Yep Rob the game lads win again.

When u look at how long certain species have been in NZ it makes u wonder what would happen if the UK govenment took the same attitude.

Wels catfish have been here, what...50 years? Lets poison the waters they are in and see how the public react.

Zander...well...they tried to kill them off...with little impact...so lets go an poison the fens, The Cam, Old Bury Hill, etc etc

Sterlets, now theres a new introduction if ever I saw one.

Orfe, Ide, Koi carp, normal carp, rainbow trout, golden trout, brook trout, blue trout, cheetah trout, tiger trout...the list goes on.....and on.

I understand the concern for native fish, but surely with proper management, all fish can live in peace.

Rob,
As much as I appreciate your concern for all fish mate there are some cases where non indigenous species cause havoc....Think of the Loch Lomond powan,almost wiped out by the ruffe!!! Also fish farming Charr/Rainbows has affects on the native Charr,Ferox and Brown Trout populations in many glacial ribbon lochs. These are a very fragile ecosystem and the introduction of new species can tip the balance for many native species....It's bad enough having non native Pike without any more interlopers....

Non native pike?

Yeah non native.....Pike were introduced to the Scottish highlands by the Victorians!!

John,

And you think pike are a problem ?

Gary,
I personally don't think so...I think they have been there so long that an equilibrium of some sort has been reached?? I am not an expert though and i believe the Pitlochry fish lab studies this kind of stuff....I just meant that pike were enough to be getting on with!!! I can take or leave them althougfh they do give a spirited fight....Sometimes thats just what you need after 14 hours of blank ferox trolling!!!

P.S.I return all the Pike I catch