Arrogance?

Read what Barrie has to say about John Bailey's recent article in Waterlog magazine and let's hear what you think.

It's something I've written about before. I really do think that John is fishing on another planet (or at least in another country) and has no tolerance of the ways other anglers fish.

He does us no favours with the antis with his radical views.

Feel free to comment, but please, keep it civil!

If,(to his way of thinking),there are so many things wrong with angling he evidently doesn't get much pleasure from it
----maybe he should take up golf ??

Not when he charges ?390 for a weekends fishing tuition !!!!

thats why he doesnt like instructional books then!

I haven't read the article as I don't have a copy of said magazine, but clearly Bailey has some valid points to make but in doing so he blunders around like a blind bull in a rickety china shop.

I like wilderness fishing and Passion for Angling too. I don't like "carp-filled puddles" and I don't often weigh fish unless I think its a new PB. I despise litter being left on the banks and I don't much care for match fishing. Can't say as bolt rigs or even poles are my cup of tea. But so what? Just because its not for me (or him) doesn't mean its not a good and valid method of fishing.

As for instruction texts, I wouldn't be fishing without them. I wanted to learn to fish but no-one in my family (at least, no-one who lived within 6,000 miles) fished. I learnt from books all of which I still have as they are good books. Once I could demonstrate to my Dad that I knew a bit about the sport and could tie a few knots he bought me my first outfit (he wanted to make sure it wasn't a phase) and without those books I wouldn't have got to that stage. I'm guessing from other comments that the gentleman in question teaches angling at the sharp end of ?400 a pop. Great for those who can afford it but most can't, so he really should stop dismissing instructional texts out of hand. I accept that not all are as good a s they could be, and fair enough if he criticises individual books but don't tar them all with the same brush.

Rarely have I witnessed (even if only in part from Rickards review of the article) such fatuous, recationary drivel. Giving ammunitions to those who would stop us from fishing is mind-bogglingly stupid and his views make him sound like a miserable old codger who shoo's away all visitors to his gate and slowly festers in their own vitriol long after anyone has ceased to care.

What I say is, don't be a bitter complainer. Make valid points, suitably backed up by evidence and provoke rational discussion by all means. This is one of the basis of civilization itself but don't make unfounded attacks on a sport we all love for the sake of venting your spleen.

John Bailey does seam to have blinkered views on lots of issues, and a lapsed memory at times.
Althogh I have no experience of pike fishing, I share Dr Rickards concerns on the use of barbless hooks, as does Tony Miles I believe. I gave up using barbless after only a short time when I saw the damage they caused to a chub's mouth when brought in through fast fowing water.

I can recall more than the odd exchange of words between J.B. and your good self-Graham, especially on the use of keepnets, and at times he did get quite insulting. Personally I do not have a problem with retaining some species of fish in a keepnet, especially if the swim you are fishing makes it difficult to return the fish to another swim, i.e. when chub fishing at night. On some sections of the Wear it would also be very dangerous.

As for bolt riggs, I had my best ever fish on one such thing, a 14-06 sea trout. Desperate measures, but after a totally blank day after barbel and chub it was a welcome fish. I also had a 6-10 rainbow shortly afterwards. Mr Bailey would probably have a heart attack on reading that.

When I returned to UK in '94, I purchased a few JB books, thinking that these looked liked good reads.

And was I mistaken.

Bailey comes over in nearly all his writings as a self righteous pratt. Not only that, his book on "The Great Anglers" is full of inaccuracies.

And some of the "big roach" he caught in Norfolk in the 70s are hybrids.

I am staggered how this person can get articles into the mags these days, most of which are based on blatant lies.

I’ve read the article in Waterlog and my impression was that the person in the article was just being elitist. Now I’ve often come across these people in other disciplines. E.g. I can remember driving up to the Lakes to go climbing and on the way we passed an elderly couple set in a lay-by having a picnic and enjoying the view, and yes the chap really did have a knotted hankie on his head. One of the lads in the car, and he wasn’t the best climber, made some derogatory comment about them and that such people shouldn’t be allowed to come into the Lakes. The lad was immediately put down, by the guy who was the best climber, who believed that any member of the public should be allowed to enjoy the beauty of the Lakes, even if he only wanted to do it from the side of the road next to his car.
Now unfortunately I’ve heard many similar comments about anglers who didn’t have the correct gear, be it a split cane rod and Barber Jacket or matching carp rods, pod and buzzer etc. Just imagine how crowded the world would be if we all liked doing the same thing?

I agree with some of JB's arguments but I think he takes things a bit too far. I too have a strong dislike of carp puddles, keepnets etc. but, unlike JB, I do not think I have the right to dictate to those who do enjoy these things. If they are left to enjoy doing what they do there is more chance of nice, quiet stretches of rivers remaining so as these people will, hopefully, stay on their carp puddles and enjoy fishing them. Perhaps JB hasn't worked this one out yet?

Ron, I think the stuff gets into mags, because todays modern magazine editors have little or no integrity, and in some instances, little or no knowledge of fishing.

A few years back, in the late 60's early 70's a certain well known coarse angling writer fell into disgrace when it was allegedly proven that something he had written was not true. That person dissapeared into obscurity for quite a few years only to re-emerge,later, this time in the guise of an expert in fly fishing. He has now dissapeared yet again and lives in Ireland, where he does a bit of Ghillie work on one of the big western loughs.

Some of what JB says now and again seems to be fair play. However I wonder what the sun rise is like on his planet, as he seems to be on a level most of us have never heard of.

What he seems to forget, is that angling is a huge participant sport in the UK, at many levels of diversity through the range.

We all in these forums are the same, but we should never slag each other off, just a bit of harmless banter.

It is possible though that Mr Bailey is in posession of substances we are not familiar with and it does in fact take him to another level.

The best thing to say is that, there are many mouths and voices that get heard in the angling world for better or worse, it should soon be time for "Joe Public" to be recognised now and then.

JB, my advise is, take your pin and rod and find your utopoia, we can direct you, as there will be nobody there but you. It is a place the sun can't and will not shine.

Dave, the only problem with the carp puddles is that those who fish them were, in most instances, club members, who's subs went towards the river rents. Every year we now see clubs losing running waters through dropping membership levels. Very soon unless aglers are fortune enough to belong to a syndicate many will have no option but to fish these muddy holes. And with the E/A so intent on salmon running every river in the country, many will be lost to coarse anlers for a long long time.
I would slap a heavy tax on these 'carp puddles'just like faggs and booze, as they can be dangerous to the health of angling clubs, and could lead to their death.

And yes, JB is an arrogant ..... man

Colin,
Angling must have more re incarnations within its ranks than the Holy Scriptures.

John

why tax 'carp puddles' heavily if that is where the majority of anglers are fishing?
Surely the clubs should be taxing the river anglers more heavily as these are frequented less often by the average angler.

It appears that 90% of the clubs members are paying for the 10% to keep hold of and fish these rivers.
If clubs are losing waters, be they river or lake, it's because the 'majority' of anglers no longer want to fish it, or because the cost of renting no longer justifies the number of people fishing it.

I think your views are very akin to Mr Baileys, in that they are elitist and arrogant.

I haven't read the article in Water Log but have seen many in Coarse Fisherman where John seems to over step the mark, although I do agree on many of his points.

The problem with John is, or at least I think is he's playing a part, he's found this little aloof niche and he loves it. Well good for him if he gets a kick out being the self acclaimed voice of righteousness, but he should stick his head over the wall and see the damage he's doing.

I do remember a few years ago in Coarse Fisherman Gord Burton (one of the biggest wind up merchants around) really got Johns goat by saying ferrox trout were easy to catch. Mr Bailey had kittens! I think he likes to give it but can't take it.

Rik, The tax was a joke?

Rik/John,
I don't think anybody should be taxed for enjoying their branch of the sport. People like different things. The rents will reflect what the clubs are prepared to pay. Personally I would be prepared to pay a little more for peaceful river fishing but I don't think a lot of anglers would.

A wise man envies a contented man and seeks to undestand himself to the extent that he will too one day be content with his lot.

A fool says and does what he thinks will make him appear superior in the eyes of his
peers. Secretly he yearns for contentment but finds himself at a loss as to where to find it.

The problem with Bailey; and also the problem with some editors, is that both he and they, think he is some kind of leading light in the angling world.

I have read a great deal of Bailey's writings, sometimes with disdain. Unfortunately he is an ex school teacher. By that very fact he thinks himself superior to the rest.

And he genuinely thinks he is right.

Yet he once openly admitted that in the 70s he cheated most horribly by admitting that he and his cohorts transported keepnets full of roach from certain venues to others in order to take photos against backgrounds where the locations of the captures would not be recognised.

And then he condemns keepnets.

No doubt Bailey is one of the biggest two faced liers that modern angling writing has ever seen.

He even called dear old Ray Webb an "Northern Plumber".

The more I read of Bailey, the more I think he should be eliminated from the modern angling journalistic scene. He is doing our sport a great dis-service

Very well put andy.

I can not relate to the writings of JB he see's him self as being far better than any one else.

He comes across as an arrogant, self important, legend in his own mind individual looney.