Television last night ? Otters.

Following on from the recent thread on the Predator Action Group and Dave Steuart's articles recently, I was wondering if any of you saw Halcyon River Diaries last night?

I didn't know of the series and this, the second episode, was the first that I had seen.

It showed night vision footage of an otter hunting ducks and later showed the signs of them taking other water fowl from a garden pond.


I suspect more otters will appear in later episodes as they have built a holt to attract them. I further suspect that just how voracious these predators are will become apparent to the viewing public and I am confident that the footage will show them warts and all. Might be an important point of reference for the public in the future?

Here's a link to the first two episodes..........


halcyon river diaries - Google Search



Stunning work and you might remember some of their earlier stuff? He was the first to film Kingfisher females fighting to the death a few years ago and she has done a moving piece about how much more wildlife she saw on walks after her dog died.


Some marvellously innovative filming techniques that remind me of my hero, the late Dieter Plage.


Here's some more of Charlie's work work for you.......

Charlie Hamilton James Portfolios



And here's a little on Dieter, you will remember some of his work surely, if not his name.......RIP Maestro.


WildFilmHistory - Dieter Plage

Yes Crucian, can't do any harm for people to realise they're not the least bit cuddly. And their favourite diet IS still endangered eels, whatever some in the EA might say..... That's from a West Country vet who's carried out over 700 post mortems on otters in the past 20 years.

Bah !

I've rather cross-posted here, but the Halcyon River Diaries thread just disappeared from my view of the forum today, so I couldn't add to it.

Strange isn't it..? a pike can, to none anglers, be painted as the demon of the depths, yet more (as in water destroying!!) devastating fur and feather "pretties" are cute!!

Otters, are without doubt the last thing we need at the moment and they are killers.

Chris Packham of Springwatch was on Radio 5 this week. He was talking about how nature can be cruel etc. His example of this? "A pike eating a duckling".

I just thought it was interesting how, out of all the possible examples in nature, he chose that particular scenario.

Then he went on a rant about cats eating birds etc. No mention of otters eating anything though, surprisingly.................

Pike, otter, preyfish and fighting Kingfishers all lived happily side-by-side for eons before we came along and decided we knew better.

The old story that pike eat everything has been disproved to the point that's it's now laughable if anyone still believes it (even though it's often cited as a reason for their eradication).

Are we to believe that a mammal, with far more capacity for thought than a fish, will wipe out the very fish stocks it lives beside? It doesn't happen in the wild.

Yes, they will eat prized fish and they can be a pest on fisheries etc but these artificial (and that is the point) fisheries are OUR doing. We made them to suit US and us only, not the environment or any ideas about nature.

We can't be expected to open these fisheries, often in the countryside and not expect animals that are indigenous to that same countryside, not to take advantage. We can't issue them a banning order. They were doing what they do when we were grooming each others' fur for dinner.

I'm aware that the reintroduction of otters hasn't gone smoothly but again, they wouldn't have to be reintroduced if we hadn't made out stamp on the countryside and ruined it for them. Give them time and they'll find a balance, if we can leave them alone and not interfere with them for more than 5 minutes. The problem with the reintroduction of any species, is there is a sudden explosion in population and then, nature finds a balance.

In Scotland you can find 100s of otter haunts, right beside seriously expensive salmon beats and they haven't eaten everything there, including the eels. The wardens, bailiffs and anglers don't see the otters as a problem because they exist in natural numbers and for that reason, they're relished as an exciting part of our wildlife and they should have that right.

I'm not suggesting the image of otters is in any way accurate. They're not Tarka and they don't want to cuddle up in front of the fire. We know that but there are far bigger threats to our angling than some otters. Industry, poaching, in-fighting, misinformation, anti-angling, cormorants to name a few.

Mink that should be the target of your attentions. Our native animals and fish didn't develop with mink in mind, yet they're everywhere. Remove them and leave the otters to work it out themselves.

I'd rather have otters than no otters. That's for sure.

There is a huge difference between the impact on a river that is predominately salmon and seatrout, and one that is a lowland coarse river.

On the migratory fish river, provided sufficient smolts go to sea and get past the netters and seals, the impact from otters is minimal because you are hoping to catch the fish in the river within days/weeks of their arrival back in the river. The fish's weight gain takes place at sea away from the otters. The otters may get some of the fish but the impact is low. Add in the fact that the fish are highly active when in the river and their survival is more likely.

On a lowland river where we hope the roach/chub/barbel/bream will live to grow to a good size we need them to survive for anything up to 25 years in the river. Aside from the massive cormorant problems that are preventing good recruitment, the coarse fish can be very vulnerable in cold weather.

This is why those that state that otters are OK in these game rivers don't understand the very different impact that they have where you need fish to survive for up to 20 years in the same environment.

This is just another example of 'we know better'. How is it that otters and fish managed to live together before but now they can't?

I suspect it's just a case that we think we have an excusive right to fish ourselves, even if it means eradicating yet another species.

Because before Man came on the scene there was such a thing as a Balance of Nature. This balance ceased to exist from that moment on and can never return. The sooner we all accept that fact the better. See Mark Wintle's excellent explanation for a synopsis. Unless we get healthy populations of migratory fish returning (ho ho ho) or other massive fish introductions every year (ha ha ha) there is no room for otters in the food chain.

Geoff, you are right, mans meddling AGAIN but in all honesty there's more chance of improving our rivers natural recruitment than there ever is gaining licences to cull otters.
As for moving them, well where too?

They are a problem on some waters but they're only really highlighting underlying problems, here to stay; like it, lump it or work with it, really that's the only three options on offer...