Possible Carp Problem?

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Steve Baker

Guest
Just been reading the threads about the carp problem in Australia and NZ. Will the the UK soon become like these countrys when carp are considered a pest? Dont forget everyone is cashing in on people fishing for these and so everyone is stocking them, result all the smaller species are in decline and the carp population is exploding.

Just wondered what everyone thinks about this?
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Steve, you are 100% correct.

Even the great Richard Walker warned us all some years ago of the over-proliferation of carp. The worst cases are those many little man made lakes that are stuffed full of baby carp. Even more dire are the numbers of superb mixed fisheries which are drained, the fish removed and then stocked with carp.

Personally I have nothing against waters which contain a small quantity of big carp. Three lakes at Selby in East Yorks is one such lake. It also contains specimen bream, roach, tench, perch and rudd.

What, however is extremely disturbing is the carp spawning activity that is taking place in our rivers. I've seen then spawning down the Trent, Warks Avon, Leam and Don quite recently. It would be a tragedy if a river like the Yorkshire Don, only recently recovered from pollution and now containing excellent roach and barbel, should suffer as a result of an over carp infestation.
 
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Philip Inzani

Guest
Not saying your wrong but fact is there are a huge number of people that want to fish for Carp, I think its the only area of the tackle trade thats growing and where there is a demand there will always be someone who will supply. The commercial fisheries that are mentioned hold some very good fish of the other species, big Perch are a well known quarry in such waters and I think there are some cracking Roach out there waiting to be caught as well. They fill a niche for many people and although I was initially sceptical of these places I am beginning to come round to the idea of them especially now a few are beginning to mature. Carp in rivers is an interesting one, I dont think they will take over, I think the situation will balance itself out over time. Everyone keeps going on about how interest in rivers in dwindling so perhaps a few Carp in them will get some of the long stay Carp boys to move off the lakes and free up some of the good swims for the rest of us!
 
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Davy North

Guest
I was sad to see in the angling press a few weeks back, a few commercial fisheries that had made very good silver fish lakes, reporting that no one was fishing them in favour of the total carp lakes.

Perhaps the problem with carp is that in the future that's all anyone, especially the young will want to fish for?


As for carp taking over UK rivers as they have down under (or we are lead to believe). Is our weather warm enough for them to spawn successfuly year in year out?
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
There are now many rivers in Southern Africa where carp are now the predominant species. They certainly spawn very successfully in this and other warm parts of the world.

The carp is one of the few species which doesn't require much skill to catch. You don't have to learn how to cast a fly, trot a stick float, cast a wagglers or to perform any number of actions that can take years of practice to perfect. As a result carp fishing appeals to anglers who possess very few manipulate skills. Anyone can cast 100 yds with the rods available today and you don't have to have much experience in watercraft.

Only yesturaday I watched a carp angler at work. When I pointed out that he would be better to move and fish into the dam wall where the wind was lashing and where I had seen several good fish roll, he commented by saying that he had set up his bivvy in that spot, and he wasn't moving.

He had been in that spot for three days without a fish.

He was obviously there for the camping, not the fishing.

Obviously the carp is an attractive proposition to many anglers who do not want to go through some sort of apprenticeship.

Shame in a way.
 
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Philip Inzani

Guest
Ron, although I have admiration for you saying what you think (perhaps to provoke a reaction - nothing wrong with that) but I have to disagree 100%.

Saying basically Carp are easy and Carp fishermen dont posess any skill is over the top. Many, many other species are caught on bolt rig/sit in tent and wait type tactics, does that make them stupid, easy to catch fish as well ? Basically its just another method.

Going back to the carp in rivers thing. I was fortunate enough to have fished for Carp in a couple of Australian rivers (I wrote an article for Graham on it some time back) and although they have a terrible image there as bank destroying vermin, it was obvious that they have not "taken over" the rivers. There is still a huge amount of other species in there thriving with the Carp. The problem is many of the anglers are just too blinkered to try fishing for them. They seem happier chucking out and reeling in a spinner for hours on end trying to catch an 8oz Bass rather than spend a bit of time trying to catch some great Carp rolling in front of them. IMO its often ill informed, narrow minded people making rash statements.
 
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john conway

Guest
Ron I’m not sure if the carp lads would agree with you on the lack of skill in catching Carp. May be it’s easier to catch any fish if that species is the by far the most predominant fish in the pond. In a very pretty local pond there are perhaps only two or three Perch over 3lb and half a dozen bream to 7lb but there must be 200 Carp between 3lb to 10lb. If it were the other way around perhaps the carp lads would be saying it doesn’t take much skill to catch the bream?
As regards Carp breeding in cold water, I’ve just read the article in “Improve Your Coarse Fishing” about fishing for Carp on the St Lawrence River in Canada, perhaps it’s just a mater of the type or breed of Carp?
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
I didn't say that carp are easy to catch. What I did say is they do not need much in the way of skill to catch.

Although I have never been to Oz, I have spent most of my adult life in Southern Africa. The very desirable large mouth and small mouth Vaal River Yellowfish have declined mainly as the result of carp.

It's unfortunate but true.

And if you ever catch a big Barbus holubi, you will never want to see a carp again for the rest of your life!!
 
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gary magee

Guest
People are continually slagging off commercial fisheries saying that they are soley stocked with carp. This could not be farther from the truth ,speaking as an angler who tries to specialise in these waters I have never fished or heard of a venue with only carp in it. Most comments that seem to be made are from people who are ill informed , if they`d only go to one of these fisheries and ask to see the stocking registers they would see that the silver fish (i.e roach,rudd,bream perch, orf,chub,gudgeon,and tench) are all represented and in most cases out number the carp in these“carp only lakes” .the misconception arises due to the fact that most of these venues are heavily match fished (opens and clubs)and these anglers predictably target the carp. If anglers stopped moaning about these silver fish venues going under and actually fished them there would be no reason for their demise .Or better still go to your local “carp only” lake and target the silver fish and be prepared to be shocked.
 
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Davy North

Guest
There have been carp in British rivers for some time, the Thames, and Trent spring to mind, but has this had a detrimental effect on other species? I don't know it's not my patch. I have heard of the odd carp caught from the Tees and Swale, but I can't really see them taking off.

As for carp in canada, although we generally think of it as a cold country, in some parts the avarage summer temp could be higher than the UK, even if a damn sight more parky in the winter.

Gary, sorry, sorry, I mentioned total carp waters. I must admit, a mate of mine fished what I would term almost carp only commercial the other week. Because the carp were spawning and not bothered about feeding he bagged up with skimmers. Which he didn't even know were in there.
 
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gary magee

Guest
Barbel have been deliberately stocked in our rivers for years but you never hear people complaining of a barbel epidemic. These fish have thrived at the cost of our native Chub which have become the secondary species on some rivers .Due to the increased flooding we seem now to be experiencing we will have to get used to more and more exotic fish entering our River systems such as catfish .
carp have been in our rivers for years and have shown no signs of displacing indiginous species and seem to stay localised in certain areas. We should look on these river carp as a bonus to add to the tapestry of river fishing not as unwanted vermin.
 
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Kevan Farmer

Guest
Phil is perfectly correct about the situation in Oz. They - the Ozzies - do indeed seem to have a fixation about catching bass amongst others but totally ignoring the huge carp that are about. However, there is a renewed interest in fishing for the Murray cod - a freshwater species that grows in excess of 100lb, possibly up to 200lb. Maybe we should stock them?
 
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Paul Williams

Guest
Gary is right you know, barbel haven't done our native river species any favours!! but they are the in fish with the angling worlds eqiuvalent of "yuppies" and they pull hard!! but at the end of the day is that all we want from our fishing, hard pulling armfulls?.
 
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Steve Baker

Guest
When were carp first introduced in this country? Are barbel native or were they introduced as i remember reading that so many were introduced and all of the barbs in the country are desended from them. Is this true
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Nobody is absolutely sure when carp were introduced to the UK. Some feel the Romans may have been responsible. Many carp were imported during the 15th century mainly by the established church to provide a food source on fast days.

Barbel were indigenous to easterly flowing rivers such as the Yorks Ouse system including the Don Dearne and Rother, Trent, Great Ouse and Thames.
 
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Leon Foreman

Guest
Ron, I gues I am the last one to be qulifeid to comment but I dont think the UK and europe sittuation can be messured againt other places in the world. In my humble oppinion each Country has unique sittuation with regards to carp. The US suffers from over poppulation byCarp do to few natural perdators of Carp and verry few Carp anglers that are taking Carp out or culling them. In OZ there are just almost no Carp anglers and in SA we have teh same problem but we have a huge ammount Fish beeing taken out. Yes I aggree that Carp did in fact affect the Barbel Poppulation but The drough in the 80's and 90's had a much bigger effect than the Carp over many years. I think the UK have a much more well ballanced system than other countries. I am not saying that the UK wont ever have an over poppulation problem but should it ever occur it will be picked up much fatser than in most countries do to the ammount og anglers on the bank in the UK than in most countries.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Did you all see the report in AT regarding the carp deaths in Earlswood Lakes. Personally I think there is more to come.

I think there is something wrong with sticking thousands of carp into lakes with the sole aim of having anglers "bag up quick". The fish will not take it. There is, to my way of thinking, something not quite ethically right about this most common practice.

What do you think?
 
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Leon Foreman

Guest
Ron Speaking of the drought, I was a newly maried man and my wife and I went fishing for the week-end at the AHV. The strech of water we fished are usually over 800 Yards wide when the river is full. It was reduced to a mere 80 Yard wide strecth when we fished it that particular week-end. In teh swim next to us were an old angler and his wife camped in a carravan for the week. At one stage he went to put a Carp he caught in his keepnet. Do to the low water level there were a lot of mud next to the water and the keep net had to be put in fairly deep to be of any use. In any case he was about a meter from his keepnet when my wife told me she was shure he was calling to us. It is a fairly long way off and I went to see if it was indeed so. When I reach him he was up to his thighs stuck in teh mud and couldnt move. He didnt want to let go of the fish however and just couldnt reach the keepet. I assisted him by getting the fish in teh keepnet. To make a long story short in the end I had to reverse my car and actually pull him out of the Mud with it to get him free. I guess its just one of things about my fishing days that will stick by me for teh rest of my life. I never saw that fisherman again at the water and cant remember his name.
 
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