What has happened

Len, I spent many happy weekends on these waters in the 90s. From 2 pound roach -lots, I also caught stacks of big tench. I lost count of the numbers of seven and eights I caught from Manor.

Very simply, can you still catch proper indigenous fish there and not just overgrown goldfish?

unfortunatly there are lots of other species in there ron. bloody pests.

could you afford to fish it though?

You bit Frothey!!!!

That's all the old bugger was waiting for. Heheheheh!

that wasnt a bite, a "blahblahblahstopslaggingoffcarp" would be a bite. that wasnt even a nibble.

just answering yes there are, but he couldnt afford it anyway as the prices have gone up.

Unless they'll do him a season ticket for 50p.

Whilst you might say that Ron was simply trying to elicit a response, I wouldn't possibly comment on that

I'm not trying to slag of carp or carp anglers this time. What I am slagging off are anglers and fishery managers who are only interested in carp.

For a lovely period we had Smiths Pool. This was one of the finest little pits I have ever fished in my life.

From that pit I had 22 two pound roach, best 2lbs 5 oz. I lost count of the numbers of 11/2 lb plus fish I caught. I also had bream to over 8 pounds, rudd to 2lbs 12oz, still water chub to 6lbs 3 oz (three over 6, all different fish) and roach/rudd hybrids to nearly 3. These were lovely fish and well worth catching.

I fished the water often with Peter Stone and Barry Horwood. I even caught a 22lb carp from the water and released it in Hardwick Lake.

The management told me that they wanted all the carp out of this lake and they wanted to make it a great mixed fishery.

Then Peter Stone died.

Shortly after that they removed the promontary that divided Smiths from Hardwick and it became one lake. What a great shame.

Then they put weedkiller into Manor.

The tench fishing decame no more.

But oh what magic those waters were for a few short sweet years.

And only ?40 a year.

A lot of Tench now get taken out of these lakes when caught (if I should say) and put in the float lake and the other little one they have at the back of the Guys/oxlease end of the collective. Saw some chap fishing Unity some weeks ago - float fishing for Tench and those he caught were to be removed. Seems no-one must slag off carpies at all but removing fish that have been in lakes for years just to leave Carp is....well don't seem right does it? A lot of the carp in these places are easier to catch than a cold!

I isn't right Nigel. In fact it's a bloody disgrace.

Indigenous fish must always come first.

Take that magnificent species - the rudd.

Smiths pool had a number of real whoppers in it. I saw a three pounder caught there by a guy from Swindon once.

I ask you all, where can you go in England these days to hunt big rudd? Even in Ireland the rudd play second fiddle to the roach these days. Nothing against roach but they should have NEVER have been introduced to Ireland.

One of the reasons I used to visit Ireland was the chance to land one of these beauties.

I go to Linear to catch, or try to, the big roach and tench that certainly used to live there. I wasn't aware that they had a catch and remove policy on those waters and if that is the case then there doesn't seem much point in my going, does there.

What is it about these carp guys that they don't like anything other than carp in their waters, or is this just a management policy?

I read recently that they've sold a load of the tench in Horseshoe as well.

WHY. Leave the fish where nature put them for god's sake.

It truly is time somthing was done about our natural waters and the indigenous species in them. If this sort of thing carries one, all we will be left with in a few years time are nothing more than massive goldfish bowls

I am lucky, I experienced the marvellous gravel pit fishing we had in the 90s for a few short years.

Sold a load of Horseshoe fish!!!!

My Friend Bob Roberts of Doncaster will break down in tears when he hears this, if he hasn't done so already. We have got to stop this and stop it now. It's about time we had a movement for the protection of native fish in this country.

What these monsters don't realise is that those tench will probably not do as well as they did in Horseshoe. They will become thin and stunted when introduced into other waters.

What is being done here is truly monsterous.

Ron - it's good to hear someone moan as much about this as I often do. The guy catching Tench so they could be removed was actually on the Unity syndicate lake so not sure if this is an all inclusive management policy or not or even if it applies to their day ticket lakes. What I have seen though is Tench being loaded into the float lake when I've been fishing it and they had obviously been caught on the surrounding day ticket lakes so who knows....
Just down the road from these lakes is a local pit I fished for years and it was full of Tench Rudd and big Chub. About 6-7yrs ago a Chub close to 7lb was taken and a net of 10 Rudd for near on 30lb also taken. I could turn up early morning catch 10lb of pristine Rudd up to 1lb (and also the most beautiful I have ever seen)followed by 4 - 8 Tench up to 5lbs. Then the small resident Carp put on weight and started coming out ( these were truly wild hardly ever hooked fish too )so the lake became bivvy territory. Lush green banks with barely any room to walk past a swim (yes - a wild natural fishery) suddenly had large round excavations made to accomodate te bivvies. Tench couldn't be caught on more naturalised baits after the boilie explosion and even if I'd switched tactics and tried to use more modern baits it quickly became rendered fruitless as a lot ofTench were supposedly caught by Carp anglers (unintentionally) and dropped into the adjacent River Windrush. It was definitely going on and although I reported this to the club secretary they could find no proof so did nothing about it. Matters weren't made any easier either when the Catfish which had been stocked late 70's very early 80's, suddenly started coming out up to 25lb. Some old friends of Peter Stone used to fish there and whenever we'd meet up we'd have scream especially with them all having fished twice as long as me so having many fishy tales to tell. One of them I'm sure was a guy called Fred who used to do some photography for Stoney. Bet they don't fish there now.

".... ask you all, where can you go in England these days to hunt big rudd? """"

I don't fish for them Ron but I know two or three good waters which sometimes throw up a good one - they seem to be on the increase at the moment.

In fact I know one water which only seems to contain rudd and eels.

Right Chris, I have a few days holiday to spend. When can I come.

I can never get enough of these truly magnificent fish, especially if they are big.

Some crackers in Horseshoe Ron.

When you like - the place I'm thinking of is challenging, ie it's a 100yd-wide section of drain, you can see the rudd off a road bridge when it's calm on a warm evening; I weighed one for a maggot drowner a few years back that went just over 2, lovely fish. The other place is a marsh creek which is about 18" deep and stuffed with them.

Last one sounds good

I'll be in touch Chris.

I suppose you have to join the Blinking Carp society to get on Horseshoe Nigel. And I suppose they want a blinking fortune to fish a lake that is populated with vermin.

Ron,

I think its only about ?30 to join the Carp Society which is a condition of fishing Horseshoe. You can then get a day ticket to fish it for about ?15.

I was prepared to pay this just to target the big tench and roach thats in there, but if they are going to remove them I'm a bit doubtful.

I can understand it if they are removing the tench because there are too many, as this can lead to stunting. What I don't like, is to think they are removed because they're a nuisance to carp fisherman.

To be fair to most of the carp fishermen I know, they don't exactly like catching accidental bream and tench but they wouldn't go so far as to have them removed. I suspect most of this is done by the people that manage the lakes in a bid to improve the carp fishing.

Most of the carp anglers I have met on the bank have been OK. They appreciate that other anglers wish to target other species and to a certain extent, these anglers also have a go for the others, especially if the fish are of good quality and size.

The guy that helped weigh and photograph my biggest tench from Linear was fascinated when I showed him how I had caught it. And then I showed him a big tench swimming in the margins.

I think I may have made a convert that day. He actually admitted that he had only ever fished for carp in his life and that he had been blinkered by his peers to the great excitement that can be found in other methods and species.

He asked me where he could buy a float rod, and some other tackle nearby.

I pointed him in the direction of J&K in Bicester.

Later that day I saw him heading in the direction of the carpark with plastic money in hand.

I never met the guy again but I do hope he caught a few nice tench.