Breaking Strains

Baz · Aug 29, 2004

I have a Harrison 11ft 1.75 carp rod.
Going by the equasion of test curve x 5 this works out at just over 8lb maximum recomended breaking strainline.

The F.M. concept rod I think works out at just over 7lb breaking strain line.

I "think" these figures are correct, so would it be foolish to exeed these breaking strains for these two excellent rods?
Is the concept rod more of a through action than the Harrison 1.75?

Wolfman Woody · Aug 29, 2004

I don't think so. I use a .30mm line rated supposedly at 16lbs on the Harrison Chimera which is around 1.75lb tc.

And previously I have used Nash Bullet .29 - 10lbs, and even braid at 20lbs on the same rod. I think Graham (the Gov.) uses 12lbs on his Chimera.

I also sometimes use 6lb line on a float rod that the manufacturer rates at 2-4lb. What does he know? He's not catching wildies in a pond overgrown with lilies.

Use the "rules" as a guide, not a commandment.

GrahamM · Aug 29, 2004

Baz, unlike cane rods, when Test Curves were popularised, the TC figures for carbon rods are only approximate guides. They have a very wide tolerance and I happily use line from 4lb to 10lb on the FM Concept for instance.

Graham Whatmore · Aug 29, 2004

If you look on the Harrison site it explains why test curves don't mean exactly what you interpret them to mean.

Baz · Aug 29, 2004

Graham/Jeff,
Thanks for your very quick replies,
This may sound silly, but this is one thing I have never been able to get absolutely clear in my head.

I thought the idea of maximum breaking stranes was so that the line would snap before the rod, if you had a good fish on.

also what size lead could you safely chuch with each rod? approx 25 yds.

I think the F.M. rod is more of a softer action than the 1.75, is that right, as I prefer a softer actioned rod, for when you have a decent fish under the rod tip.

Big Rik · Aug 29, 2004

I have a 11' 1.75lb carp rod and use mono lines between 6 and 12lb, as well as 20lb braid.
I'm just easier on the 6 than I am on the 12.

As suggested, approximates and guides, not rules.

Baz · Aug 29, 2004

Thanks Rik and G.W.
I allways did take things to the letter, this is what allways confused me.

I just had a look at the Harrison site, first time for over 10 years, I think there was only 1 page when I first checked them out.
I'm interested in building a rod for the fun of it. I have a carp rod of about 2.5 test curve, nothing special and I have never caught anything on it. It was allways the Harrison that did the business, although I realise that the rod has nothing to do with getting a fish to take your bait. So I might strip this one down and see what I can do with it. I allways prefer the 11ft rods, as I rarely fish more than 25 yds out.
Thanks again.

Ron Troversial Clay · Aug 29, 2004

Graham is spot on about test curves and line ratings. Regarding modern rods, the piece on test curves and how they are flawed in terms of modern materials is well worth reading.

I have used lines from 5 lb to 12 lb on my Concept Rods with no problems whatsoever. And have caught pike to 18lb, tench to 6 lb barbel to 9 lb and lots of chub with them.

Even **** Walker gave a wide range of line strengths for his original Mk IV which had a TC of 11/2 lbs, although the later rods were somewhat stiffer.

6 to 12 lbs bs

Ron Troversial Clay · Aug 29, 2004

I have "lobbed" out 3 oz watch leads complete with large hair rigged baits and funnel web bags full of freebies with my Concepts, way beyond the middle if the Tidal Trent.

They are great to play hard fighting fish with and are very forgiving when you get a plunging barbel under the rod tip.

Baz · Aug 29, 2004

This really is an eye opener for me, once again thanks a lot for the information.

GrahamM · Aug 29, 2004

The thing to remember is that, to a great extent, you can make most rods use much heavier lines than they were meant for just by lowering the tip closer to the water and applying the force through the butt. It's a simple equation really, in that all you're doing if you took this to the 'nth degree (by pointing the rod at the fish), is eliminating the rod altogether and playing the fish off the reel.

Obviously there is a point where you then lose all the shock absorber effect and risk a sudden breakage. So the sensible thing to do is recognise that although carbon rods are very tolerant they still have limitations. Experience gained by using the rod in a variety of situations teaches you the sensible limits.

Andy "the Dog" Nellist · Aug 29, 2004

I use my Harrison 1 3/4's with anything from maxima 6lb mono to 15 braid with no problems at all.

Modern carbon rods are far more flexible than their predecessors and are able to cope with various different demands from being able to cast distance, be powerful enough to play large fish and be sensitive enough to play small fish.

These days the test curve label is simply an indication of the nature of the action and function of the rod. To find out what a rod is really capable of you need to try it out.

8 years ago I had my tricast 1 1/4's, that had done me proud for more than a decade, stolen fromn the bank. When I went to replace them i looked at every blank available that claimed to have a similar action and the difference between them was unbelievable. I went for the Harrison's and i have never regreted that decision for a second since. Steve Harrison certainly knows his stuff.

Baz · Aug 29, 2004

I have allways liked the Harrison blanks, a nice slim rod. I think I paid ?110 for the 1.75 and that was something like 12 years ago, (a chrissy present for my lad) but I use it nowadays, matched with a cardinal 55.
They seem to work well together, and I always had confidence in them.
I think at the time, Harrisons hadn't been going that long, and I phoned the main works up at Liverpool. I had a good chat with whoever, and they were very helpfull, as I wanted this particular rod as I said for a chrissy pressy, with three days to go before Christmas. They had one delivered for me to the only shop at the time who sold them.

Wolfman Woody · Aug 29, 2004

Whenever I buy a new rod I always take it into the garden and stick a big reel (I have a very old Daiwa that I wouldn't dream of using for fishing anymore) and wind on some ESP 15lb. The line, from memory, breaks consistantly at around 26 lbs.

I tie one end to the washing post and then gradually put a bend into the rod until it's at right-angles. That gives me an idea of what the curve is really like and if the rod is anything like the TC they quote. I then bend it a little further than 90? just to see how it will take it.

If the rod has a fault this will find it. If it's ok, as they have all been so far, I now have an idea just how far I can push it. With carbon rods they do seem unbreakable* especially those with a Kevlar in the wrap.

* when compressed from the front though carbon does shatter like pot. Graham would know why, but I believe it has something to do with the way the material is laid on the mandrel. I only caught the tip of a John Wilson rod once and the top 6 inches shattered into 12 pieces.

Baz · Aug 29, 2004

I thought I didn't need any more rods.
But I wouldn't mind a little go with the F.M. rod, just to try it out.

Baz · Aug 30, 2004

This has turned out to be a very interesting thread.
When the F.M concept rod was first thought of, how was the test curve decided on? Did it have a dry run before going public? And did it live up to expectations straight off?
Why was it decided to be built without different strength quiver tips? As this is something I see people doing more of nowadays, even though they have interchangeable tips for their own rods, a lot of people are now using the Avon float top or using a flexible tipped rod.

People have said to me, not to use any of the tips on my own rod, and wait for the rod end to go over.
I can understand what they are saying, but does the concept rod take into account those more delicate bites? Not forgetting that rods of the same test curve can behave in different ways.

Ron Troversial Clay · Aug 30, 2004

I think Graham will put in a link to how the FM rod was concieved.

It was my idea at first. I thought it would be an idea to concieve a general purpose big fish rod with an all through progrssive action that could be used for chub tench, barbel and bream, through to carp and pike fishing for short distance work.

Then Graham came along with ideas of his own. And finally Steve Harrison suggested that if we were to put down a specification, he would make the rod and have it available for distribution

A prototype was made. It was sent to Graham who caught some chub and barbel with it. Graham then sent this rod to myself. I used it to catch double figure pike and barbel to 8 lbs on the Trent. Quite frankly the rod was so good we didn't have to change the design much, other than to incorporate double leg guides on the final production rod instead of the single leg ones on the prototype.

The specification is:

Length: 11 feet
pieces: 2
Test Curve: 11/2 lbs
Characteristics: A compound taper with a fine tip and a stiff butt section for putting heavy pressure on big fish.
Handle: 22 inches cork
Real seat: Down locking Fuji DPS
Guides: Double leg SiC 9, including tip guide, a keeper ring is also included.
Finish: whippings black, blank left matt and unvarnished.

The rod originally sold for ?99.00.

Worth every penny.

Baz · Aug 30, 2004

Thanks Ron,
I have seen a couple of them in action, and now I've decided I would like to own one myself. It makes it that much better for me personally if for once I get to know the history of the rod, and why it came about. Somehow it makes it more personal. It all adds to the feel good factor.
Especially getting to know who was behind it, and being a gang member on F.M.

Ron Troversial Clay · Aug 30, 2004

You will find the Concept a lovely fishing tool Baz. It doesn't look much when you take it out of its bag, because it is so plain.

However it possesses something I call functional beauty, and the design is timeless.

The fittings on the rod are the best available anywhere too.

Robert Woods 1 · Aug 30, 2004

Baz,
Get one mucker...even I've got one. Lovely action and power for such a light rod. Handles the Dane chub well.

Bob Woods.

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