You get what you deserve.

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

Since the hunting ban we have been approached by all and sundry, latest is the AV, concerning funding and support for a governing body etc etc etc.
So, rather than just throw money (around 250k) into the ring we thought we'd ask you lot what you actually wanted from an organisation to decide where to place our support.

In response to that question we have, in the last 24hrs received the grand total of zero responses. ( place the topic of tits in the X rated box and the discussion will rum for a month)

It is curious that, in the past, no organisation has ever contacted us despite having over 200,000 hits per month on our website, the largest worldwide membership to a specimen organisation and the most comprehensive research program in Europe.

Except of course ..... when they want money.

We have even, in the recent past, contacted ECHO with a view to providing them with research data and funding and they didn't even have the courtesy to reply. Our own money is even used to provide rewards, at a grand a time, for information on illegal fish ......

Yet never have we had any interest from the 'anglers hero's' brigade until of course, yes you've guessed it,.......... they want money.

If carp anglers on this forum have been struck dumb then don't moan in the future when your sport is at threat because you'll get what you deserve ......... and at his rate, you don't deserve anything !

Frothey · Sep 21, 2004

i just want a bit of honesty from the organisations that exist within angling, and lake/syndicate owners....

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

Thanks for the response Frothy.

If you have any ideas as to who is best to support or even if you want an entirely new organisation in whatever form just let me know. If no-one will talk to us, and I mean Carp anglers not guys that change clothes in phone boxes and fly off in their red tights, then there's no way I'll sanction any support for anyone because we don't have any confidence either!

Stuart Dennis 2 · Sep 21, 2004

Grumpy, explain your objective?

Frothey · Sep 21, 2004

the saa....

the problem with single species groups is just that, they only worry about themselves and miss the bigger picture. the bcsg/echo have the ideas people, but not the political clout ( i appreciate echo have highlighted the illegal import thing )

who is the "AV"?

roto fryer 1 · Sep 21, 2004

the best organisation to support is not echo but the saa who produced a nice code of conduct that can be seen at
http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/saa/Code2002.htm

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

STUART,
We have two objectives,
As a company I reckon we have around 8 yrs to get our act together with regards to the ever increasing pressure that will be applied by the 'anti' brigade.
As an individual I'm sick of all the crap and squabbling, failed promises and bullhsit that permeates the industry.

ROTO
Glad you're still talking to me ....
The saa have been mentioned to me several times, in fact I had a long discussion with another interested party at the weekend who would also throw some money in the pot and asked our advice. Trouble is I get very synical about codes of conduct. There are many 'well meaning' organisations around but they never seem to have the expertise to really get out there and light a few fires.

FROTHEY
Couldn't agree more.

Frothey · Sep 21, 2004

to be honest steve, can you blame them for not getting back?

for a company the size of supafish's no-one seems to know a member, and the site doesnt seem to provide any real information about it. you should maybe be a bit more transparent (without giving away the research data)

you mentioned the reward for info about illegal's, but no mention of it on the site, so no-one outside the organisation knows about it.

all fishing organisations need "anglers hero's" - would fishingmagic have got so big without a "name" running it?

and get a new webmaster!

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

Frothey,
I do have a new webmaster and he's rubbish!
Our ISHA members do keep everything to themselves and we are very strict about confidentiality, I don't apologise for that.
Th reward info is on our site together with our view of CEFAS, confidential contact numbers etc etc. .....
As for us as a company, we do not need to advertise and the site is geared towards a commercial base and new clients, it's not dedicated to anglers, our income doesn't come directly from them anymore, at least not so much in the UK.
As for the rest of it, we make as many mistakes as anyone else but we do not have any product loyalties, don't care who we upset and if necessary are quite happy to stand on our own on any subject.
I could go on but that's not what is important. I'm not looking for anyone's approval of Supafish, don't need it, but I do have funds available for the right cause and we thought the best way to find one was to ask you lot.

Big Rik · Sep 21, 2004

Steve

ECHO, the CS, BCSG et al, are all group members of the SAA, so surely, promoting and supporting the umbrella organisation would benefit all.

That was the original intent of the SAA, to bring together disparate groups and have a single voice.

When people ask who they should be funding, then wouldn't it be in everyones interest to either point them towards the SAA if they are that way inclined, or towards the NFA, if specimen angling isn't their bag?

These groups already exist, but if people don't support them, then they will not grow and prosper and even more 'umbrella' groups will be formed.

Frothey · Sep 21, 2004

i can understand why you do what you do, but you cant blame people for then not trusting you (for want of a better word)

the saa.....

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

Rik,
Good points but I wonder if there is a fatal flaw there,.. in general people DON'T support them.
If they did there wouldn't be any need for unbrellas in the first place.
And I'm understandably concerned about the structure of the whole thing. You know what it's like to get any conformity or concensus of opinion at a small club meeting let alone so many organisations all babbling at once.

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

Frothey,
Not asking for trust, the people we need it from are mainly our clients and ISHA members and we have it, most new one's come from referals anyway which speaks for itself.
Basically I'm leaving Supafish soon and would like to leave something behind but I won't give money away or influence others to without being convinced it will do some good.

Big Rik · Sep 21, 2004

of course there is a need for umbrella orgs, otherwise we would have a national fishing club (there's a thought) and all fish in the same way on the same waters.

Because there are so many different viewpoints, disciplines, styles, attitudes etc etc, then you will always need a group to give all those varying opinions one unified voice.
That organisation is already in place, it's the SAA and the more people, companies, groups and suchlike that throw their weight behind them, then the more able they will be to affect any changes or to stem any more of the fictional diatribe spouted by anti angling groups.

What is the point in creating yet another group, when the mechanism is already in place?

Re-inventing the wheel?
why?
The wheel is already there, it's round, it's spinning, why not help put some better tyres on it and help steer it in the direction that you want?

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

OK, we'll have a look at them and see what their structure is and what they've done in the past etc. Thanks for the comments, don't agree with them all but thanks anyway.
Still a bit worried about something so unwieldy and wonder about their commercial expertise which is just as important as passion ....
Who is the guy we need to speak to ?

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

So many umbrellas .... just been told the NAA have everyone including the SAA under Their wing ...............

Wolfman Woody · Sep 21, 2004

I would have said the SAA, but then not all anglers are "specialist"s are they? Maybe the match and run-of-the-mill pleasure seekers are just not interested enough in the SAA.

Despite all it's present failing I still think the NFA SHOULD be the umbrella organisation for coarse anglers. It needs to smarted up its act and start appealing to ALL anglers though, carp, specialist and rank and file as well as matchmen. I still maintain that the matchmen are only in it (through clubs) because of the chance of going into the nationals.

If you think them worthy of it, why not give them a taster of ?25,000 and tell to smarten up. Put a plan together with a 2, 5 and 10 year projection for membership, where it will come from, positions to be assigned and candidates to choose from, and premises and equipment to be purchased. If they do that to your satisfaction, promise them the rest, 10 times that deposit. Just as a starter.

If they could only win over 500,000 anglers at ?15 each, it would be a damned sight better that they have at the moment.

Stuart Dennis 2 · Sep 21, 2004

as advised, from Grumpy's other thread:

I'd want equality for all. Not some glorified 'boys club' where the only selection to join was based on how many times you can get up the ass of a carp publisher or retain more points the more you sing a brand to death whether tested or not!

The first objective for me would be to rip out all levels of piering, and by that I mean enforce equality so each member actually feels like they are a member and not a follower of wannabee's!

Grumpy · Sep 21, 2004

Who do you reckon then Stuart?
It's got me baffled.
Jeff
Perhaps they should be approaching us with a battle plan ?

Wonder if we could actually get guys from different forums all talking together on one ........ nah, silly me.

Warren 'Hatrick' (Wol) Gaunt · Sep 21, 2004

Like RMC and Fishing Warehouse?????

Hmmmmmmm

naaaaaa

You get what you deserve.

New member

Frothey

Guest

New member

Stuart Dennis 2

Guest

Frothey

Guest

roto fryer 1

Guest

New member

Frothey

Guest

New member

Big Rik

Guest

Frothey

Guest

New member

New member

Big Rik

Guest

New member

New member

Wolfman Woody

Guest

Stuart Dennis 2

Guest

New member

Warren 'Hatrick' (Wol) Gaunt

Guest