Flying Backleads

The river season is about to start and the river I will be fishing for carp has a lot of boat traffic and I`m going to use flying backleads. I`ve brought some sliders from fox but I`m not sure how to use them, ie, blunt end towards the lead, if a stop knot needs to be used. Any help would be great Pete

Pete, I've been using flying back leads for about a year now and found them fairly effective when fishing at some distance on lakes. The prime word being at distance as this gives the lead a chance to fly back further from your lead pinning more line behind your rig to the deck. For river work I would suggest using something like the new captive leads that are available, as the flying backlead type may roll around in the current a bit and also unless you are punching the cast out a fair bit I have found that they don't fly backwards to far. It's sometimes tricky knowing how much to load them with "heavy metal" so a bit of experimenting is needed.
When using them on lakes I put a small bead between the lead and the flyer (blunt end to lead) and no stop knot so they can fly back as far as possible.

Hope this helps.

"the new captive leads that are available"

Would that be the ones that Gardner bought out about 3 years ago?

When I've river fished and the current isn't too bad, I use a plaice ball (e.g. a bullet lead) of between one and two ounces plus a backlead.

Peter I have not seen the Fox ones but if they are anything like the solar ones then I think the idea is that you thread them on the line pointy side first (so blunt end towards the hook) if you want to pin the line back a long way behind the tubing or thread them blunt side first if you want them to land closer to the tubing?..the idea is that air pressure on the lead is supposed to hold it back as you cast so a blunt end forward will be pushed further back up the line. A stop knot can be put on the line to limit how far back the lead will slide as you cast.
I am not totally convinced of this myself as I see anglers using a tiny flying backlead and then fishing razor tight lines with heavy indicators which probably has the back lead sliding all the way down to the tubing anyway but thats the idea behind it.
If you look around in the sea or match sections you may be able to find some drilled leads that do exactly the same thing but are a lot cheaper then purpose sold flying back leads. On lakes I love em.

I actually think the flying back leads are a really dangerous idea. I tried my own version nearly 20 years ago, and used them for about 2 years, until i started to get snap offs.

I had just changed waters to one that had a light covering of blanket weed on some of the shallower parts when I started to get all sorts of problems. I found out it was the flying backleads picking up weed. This in turn caused the leads to grate on the line, so snapping it. I must emphasize that the leads I were using were lined with PFTE tube with no sharp edges etc.

Be very careful with them. Another problem is that they can pick up large amounts of normal weed and actually jam on the line. Its no fun having a lump of weed on the line with a carp another 40 yards out.

I like the looks of the captive system though

Rob, its interesting, I have used them for ages and I have never had a problem like that with the line snapping like you describe - those lines 20 years ago eh! (joke)
I am very surprised that you think they are dangerous. I think any set-up has the potential to be dangerous, it depends on who, where and how its being used so I better expand on how I use them.....
I dont use them in heavy weed or in swims where the bottom in undulating in such a way that the line will be running over large toughs or humps and won't be pinned down anyway. I also used a home made version long before they became commercially available, that?s not trying to sound big headed its just a fact. I first used them for Barbel and my home made version was a large bore ring similar to a John Roberts low resistance one with a swivel and lead attached. This was then stopped maybe 3 feet above my usual lead. When you lobbed it out underhand the top lead landed near your feet and the bottom lead out into the river. It was great and caught me a lot of Barbel on swims where before you would get liners and then nothing and seemed to be a case of fish spooking off the tight lines. It was therefore with interest that I recently saw, I think Martin Bowler, was advocating something very similar for pressured Barbel and I think his words where something like "be prepared to see your catches double or even treble"! He also uses them in VERY weedy swims although I think the way he does it is to try and gauge the size of the channels between the weed and adjust the set-up accordingly.
The problem with my original set-up was that the backlead lead was hanging down pendant style and was a potential additional snag for weed. The bore of the ring was also large and a potential issue for jamming with weed.The flying backleads I now use (for Carp on lakes not rivers) are very similar in shape to an Olivette and slide on the line directly. They are very similar to the Nash version (actually exactly the same but 4xcheaper). The bore is small and fits snug to the line they are streamlined and small and I am far more concerned about my main lead snagging and snapping the line than my backlead. I have used them extensively in lakes even with light bottom weed like silkweed fort example and I think they are great and have no problems. So sorry mate I dont agree with you on this one when you dismiss them so easily as being dangerous.

Maybe I should have put "dangerous in certain circumstances. For example, lakes with weed, bars, rocks, snags etc etc.
On a clear bottom, then there is no potential for the weight to snag etc

Anyone remember the Flying Pickets ? are the the Flying Backleads a tribute band ?

David,
What have you been on tonight? and where do i get some? )

Thanks lads for the info. the reason for the back leads is boats rather than weed fishing the far bank some 40-50 yds. Last year I got ripped-up by arrogant pompous boat ouners breaking the river speed limit with no consideration to other river users. The captives look just the ticket now has anyone used them, am I right in thinking after casting out I put the back-lead on along with the cord atatched run it down the line before put ting the rod on the rest, tighting up to the back-lead and setting the baitrunner and on the strike releasing the back-lead and pulling it back in with the cord

The dawning of a new season or several pints of the black stuff .

Pete

I've used the Gardner ones for about 3 or 4 years, and that is exactly how I would use them.

Hi all, Philip, you quote, "A stop knot can be put on the line to limit how far back the lead will slide as you cast." ..is that a good idea, for obvious reasons?

IMO captive backleads are ok, but you have to think carefully at what you are trying to achive.
I can't understand anglers that back lead right under the rod tips unless on a canal to avoid boats.
If you are using backleads to pin the line down through the baited area then you need the backlead to be on the same level as the lake bed.
A backlead under the rod tips is usually in a shallower margin leaving a 'bow string' tight line through midwater which totally defeats the object of using backleads.
Also with the backlead under the rod tips the angles of the line through the tip ring and backlead inhibits bite indication.
Countless times I've seen anglers rod tips bouncing or bending downwards without the bite alarm registering a bite because the backlead is under the rod tip.

IMO back leads are perfectly safe in weed as long as the are of the Fox or Korda variety with have a silicon/latex sleeve between the ring and lead.
Set up correctly the back lead will pull off in weed.
Mind you, using backleads over the top of weed can also cause indication problems.

Hi gaffer?backleads are always a good discussion point!

I dont think you read my post correctly (or perhaps I did not explain correctly) but I dont use mine with a stop knot. I was simply answering one of the points raised in the original question which asked about stop knots behind flying backleads. If you actually read my first post you will see I said that the idea was to limit how far back the lead will go?thats what a backstop behind a flying backlead is for.?..I think its even suggested with the info you get when you buy some packs. However I also said in my first post I was not totally convinced of this and think on many occasions it will end up much closer to the main lead anyway. Reason I dont like backstops is probably for the same reason as you?.I am not confident that they will slide off in the event of a break. However although I dont like them there are loads of people out there who do. For example Jim Gibbinson was always writing about using a stop knot behind his tubing top hold it in place and he is certainly more experienced than me and I would guess you.

I also never suggested using them under the rod tips. I even said that I dont like using
in swims where the bottom in undulating in such a way that the line will be running over large toughs or humps and won't be pinned down anyway?I said that in my second post, if you read it.
Just for your own info, there is another reason to use backleads right under the rod tips other than to avoid boats and that is in restricted swims where you want to avoid a fish being played picking up the other lines?and no I dont suggest that I do this every time I go fishing before I am leapt on for that!

As for backleads in weed..I am talking heavy weed here not mild bottom weed?.I dont agree with you and think that a backlead here, captive, flying or otherwise is a liability. On one hand you say that the backlead needs to be on the same level as the lake bed to avoid a bow string tight line through the swim but then you say that they are OK in weed?.. what makes you think that in heavy weed the line is going to be nice and tight and flat ? Have you ever actually had a look at your line in this situation? ?.it goes all over the place?.up, down, side to side, certainly not flush to the lake bed. As for the silicone sleeve to attach the lead (have you been reading Mr Nash?) Can you explain how you do it in weed as I cannot get it to work correctly.

Can I just say, anything that is threaded onto the line, ie a flying back lead, that is an integral part of a set up, ie, cannot pull off in the event of a snag, is dangerous.

Weed can and does gather round it, causing a severe angle to be created if playing a fish. This causes the weed and lead to grate on the mainline. Another real problem is that the back lead can snag between rocks. If this happens u can say goodbye to any end tackle or fish u may have hooked.

If you are fishing the far bank of the river/canal, why not push the rod tips under the water? I never see this being done these days. When I was younger, rod tips were touching the water or indeed, several inches under it. These days it seems almost fashionable to have the rods parallel to the bank, or sticking in the air.

Rob, dont want to start another debate between you and I on flying back leads as I think we obviously disagree (at least in part) which is cool as it would be boring if we all thought the same.

What I do want to push you on a bit more is the rod tips low stuff. On lakes I think you are spot on and that is exactly how I fish....I have posted several times in the past saying exactly that....tips low, slack line (plus I put on a small flying backlead but lets not go there!) However the original question was about avoiding boat traffic. I have the same issue right now where I am fishing. Do you really think that if you are fishing the far bank of a river with boats going up and down that having the tips a few inches, or even feet down is going to save you ? By the way I am not talking "boats" not a canoe or a bloke out in a rubber dingy.

Hi Philip, ;-)

Quote-For example Jim Gibbinson was always writing about using a stop knot behind his tubing top hold it in place and he is certainly more experienced than me and I would guess you.

>I still don't think Mr Gibinson is correct in using a stop knot behind his tubing, if fact I don't care who it is, anything that doesn't just slide off a broken mainline is irresponsible.

Quote-I also never suggested using them under the rod tips.

>Philip, I appologise if I implied that you did, that's why I put, IMO....

Quote-As for backleads in weed..I am talking heavy weed here not mild bottom weed….I dont agree with you and think that a backlead here, captive, flying or otherwise is a liability. On one hand you say that the backlead needs to be on the same level as the lake bed to avoid a bow string tight line through the swim but then you say that they are OK in weed….. what makes you think that in heavy weed the line is going to be nice and tight and flat ? Have you ever actually had a look at your line in this situation? ….it goes all over the place….up, down, side to side, certainly not flush to the lake bed.

>I did say that using backleads over weed can cause problems, what I meant was, it's ok to use backleads where weed maybe present in parts of a lake, but backleads should only be used on the clear parts of the lakebed.

Quote-As for the silicone sleeve to attach the lead Can you explain how you do it in weed as I cannot get it to work correctly.

>I've found the Korda backleads best when there maybe the threat of snagging.
The latex sleeve can be just eased onto the lead, the slightest pull and the lead will discharge.

Quote-(have you been reading Mr Nash?)

>You obviously haven't been on my website! ;-)

Atb, Gaffer.

Hi Gaffer, thanks for your responses, first apologies if I was a little abrupt in my note..its frustrating when I cannot explain something properly in type, I did not mean to take it out on you. Also I have been to your website and think its very good.

Only point I think you and I disagree on it that silicone sleeving. To be fair you have clarified that you are not talking about using backleads in weed which makes things alot easier but how anyone can get these to work as intended in weed is beyond me.

If anyone can solve the boat problem (getting lines out of the way of river boats without a backlead) then I am all ears as that is a major problem for me currently.

Philip, have you tried walking round to the other bank and fishing the margins? ) It worked for me on the Thames!

The rod tips under the water does work, if you are fishing deepish water, ot the centre channel, but I appriciate where u are comming from.