Progress?

I'm interested to know of anglers' experiences with carbon match / float rods. Only in recent times have I 'gone over' to carbon having used an Abu Zoom with great pleasure for many successful years. Around last Christmas-time I bought a 15ft float rod (made by a renowned northern England firm) only to have it snap cleanly in half. After very grudgingly forking out for the carriage, I accepted a new one (via the retailer)...and had that one snap on lifting a few strands of weed. Determined not to make the same mistake again I chose another rod of 'equal status' only to have the top 6 inches snap - last week - under the strain of a swung 4oz perch! Now that one has gone back to the 'manufacturer'. Four years ago I had TWO 'top quality' telescopic carbon pike rods snap on casting - just above the handle!

I own 26 rods and treat them well. Never have I had a glass rod do this and only once did a cane rod let me down, at the tip. Will I buy another carbon match rod? Yeah...I'll pay up to thirty bob.

Nah, that is to easy

I use a hardy carbon match 11ft that must be 30 years old and it's brilliant - yet I treat it appallingly. Put a marker on ebay for one.

Cliff,

Either you're unlucky or careless. Some early carbon match rods were very brittle but most recent ones are very good. I abuse them more than most and rarely have a problem. It's true that the last few inches of tip needs care.

I've owned about 25 carbon match rods in the last 33 years and used them extensively. That represents something like 150,000 hours active fishing with them. I've had four snap, all early ones that were known to do this, and broken the last inch or two on three, all of which had very fine hollow tips. Amongst the products I've used are Bruce & Walker, Daiwa, Shakespeare, Normark, Preston and Shimano.

One thing to watch out for is that the tip ring should have an angle of 85 degrees to the rod but many have 135 degrees when supplied. You have to carefully bend the ring to the correct angle otherwise you get constant tangles around the tip increasing the chance of breaking it.

As for glass, there is no comparison with the best carbon rods for fine line fishing. I did an article on FM where I dug out my remaining ABU Zoom Mk 6 for a go on Throop. I had to relearn to cast such a slow actioned rod which weighs twice as much as my usual rods.

Thanks, Mark, but it's certainly not carelessness: how can swinging-in a tiddler or lifting a few strands of weed constitute carelessness? Or casting out a standard float rig - only to have the rod snap in two? Having now had plenty of opportunity to closely study a cross-section or three it's unlikely I'll buy another - unless I have no choice (anyone making glass rods still?) Come to think of it, I think my old man's greenheart is still in the attic.....

Cliff
To miss out on the benefits of carbon would be a pity, it really is superior to glass in so many ways.

The biggest issue with carbon is that you cannot put too sharp a bend in them. basically, hold a piece of carbon at each end and bend it, it will not snap but hold it a couple of inches from the tip and bend it and it will. If you lift a fish with the rod at an angle from your body - no problem. But lift the rod vertically and the stress on the rod tip can become too much and it will snap.

If this is not what caused your breakage than either the blank was defective or you should have used your bankstick to clear the nettles, not the new rod

I also think that we sometimes give the blank a dink against an overhanging branch and weaken the blank without realising the damage we have done, then when we put the rod under strain again the blank fails. I think this is what happened to a Shakespeare extended splice rod which I managed to break last season, though the swim I was fishing did not have trees in, the swim I fished in the previous session did, and I probably damaged it then, why else would it just snap after over a decade of good service?

Also as Dave has said the inherent stiffness of carbon means it is easier to pull a small section into an acute angle, this is why wrap-arounds on quiver tips often break the tip as the pull on the line is parallel to the rod.

Overall though carbon is by far the better material, I have tried using cane and glass and even some of the earlier carbon rods and they feel sloppy and unresponsive in comparison.

Over the years I have managed to break rods made out of all the common rod making materials, walking the tip into a tree seems about the most efficient method.

I've had many carbon float rods over the years. Best of all was an original 12 foot Normark Microlight (which was pinched by some swine!) but many have been disappointing. I well remember a two month old Shimano Twin Power spliced tip stick float rod purchased in 1993 that snapped clean through just above the cork when I struck into a small chub; it's not as if I struck hard either, as the swim was only ten yards long and the bite came half way down. More recently I had a John Wilson Trotter which had a nice action but I couldn't stand the horrid handle; I thought about stripping it and re-corking to a more comfortable diameter with sliding reel fittings, but in the end I decided it wasn't worth it, and sold it.

It's not just me either; a friend broke an expensive carbon rod just by flicking out a stick float on the Kennet; when we examined the break (a clean snap) there didn't seem to be any fibre visible in what was clearly a very thin-walled blank - it was almost like looking at the end of a drinking straw. A couple of years ago I saw an angler on a club lake break a Fox match rod playing a modest crucian, and once again the blank appeared to be devoid of any reinforcing fibres.

That said, many friends own and use carbon float rods without incident. If I can make any comment it's this; carbon float rods reached a peak of design/performance in the mid-late 1980s; since then they seem to have become over-complicated and seemingly excessively delicate. Why for instance do we need fixed reel seats on float rods? They only add weight and limit you to one reel position.

Last weekend I sold my remaining carbon float rod (a nice original Drennan IM6 Waggler) as I hadn't used it for more than a year. Nowadays I stick to my trusty 12 foot Hardy Matchmaker, or one of my old cane rods.

See, i told you all this was far to easy ...........

Why don't we just turn it in to a 'Old versus New' Thread and cut out the **** lol

Waits for Ron to stir in the ingredients.

Are Olivers of Knebworth still in business? I can't find a web-site for them. Anybody know? I'm very keen to own another 12' 'Tench' (3-piece) in honey glass. Can anybody help?

Thanks.

Fred Blake said:

Why for instance do we need fixed reel seats on float rods? They only add weight and limit you to one reel position.

Click to expand...

It's probably for people like me Fred. I only fish with the reel in one position anyway so I like a screw on reel seat - and the plastic ones are so light the weight is not a consideration. I'm always having the reel come loose when fishing without a screw-on reel seat and it always seems to be at the worse time too

I consigned my last glass rod to the skip way back in 1987 and have been using carbon ever since.

I own a few carbon float fishing rods, including a couple of ultralight match rods that have been subject to the most terrible abuse at times, with no problem at all. The only rod I did break was when I trod on a Drennan float fishing rod. I was able to get a new section almost immediately.

I have also used 5 weight fly rods to cast 8 weight lines before today!

I think Cliff you must be unlucky.

I tend to sit on the fence at times on the subject of rod materiels, Theres no mistaking the fact that carbon makes handling and playing fish so very differant from the more traditional wood/glass choices of yesteryear but for some the traditional materials satisfy thier needs. I still for example use my old conoflex pike rods that I made up myself for the majority of work done when deadbaiting for pike. They play fish more than adequetly and I see no reason to change up to carbon as they are in the rests for much of the time until a run occurs.Like Ron and many other game anglers, tying ones own flies gives added pleasure when deceiving fish to take thier offering of what resembles some insect or whatever-- so it is with my old glass rods.When using a stick float however as I was yesterday - I must be a dinasaur by the way- carbon is a first choice and I have had mine since the mid nineties (a Shimano aero match with a spliced tip-- (lovely little thirteen foot tool that I would love to duplicate one day ). Sometimes progress for some is a backward step for others.

Cliff Hatton 2 said:

only to have it snap cleanly in half. After very grudgingly forking out for the carriage, I accepted a new one (via the retailer)...and had that one snap on lifting a few strands of weed. Determined not to make the same mistake again I chose another rod of 'equal status' only to have the top 6 inches snap - last week - under the strain of a swung 4oz perch! Now that one has gone back to the 'manufacturer'.

Click to expand...

You know, Cliff, when you come up to the CA I was going to let you have a go with my Preston Elite, but you can forget that now you clumpsy oaf!

Seriously, when I get a new rod I test it first of all in the garden, tying a line to the washing line stump and pulling the rod through 90° (it's test curve). Then taking it further still until it bends to the butt. Then I try some strikes, not too heavy until I gain the confidence.

If the rod breaks during this then it wasn't any good in the first place. I might accept a replacement, but I may prefer a credit and buy something different, but saying that, I've not had a carbon rod break on me yet.

Addendum - except a cheap 6' US product that cost all of £15 and broke under a heavy cast. Absolute rubbish that was and I knew it from the start.

Cliff Hatton 2 said:

Are Olivers of Knebworth still in business? I can't find a web-site for them. Anybody know? I'm very keen to own another 12' 'Tench' (3-piece) in honey glass. Can anybody help?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

There's a chap in Shropshire who carries on the Olivers name; not sure if Ted Oliver is still alive, but he doesn't appear to have anything to do with the business now. I think he only does cane now though.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:55 ----------

geoffmaynard said:

It's probably for people like me Fred. I only fish with the reel in one position anyway so I like a screw on reel seat - and the plastic ones are so light the weight is not a consideration. I'm always having the reel come loose when fishing without a screw-on reel seat and it always seems to be at the worse time too

Click to expand...

So it's your fault! Humphh...

Perhaps I should explain why I don't like fixed reel seats. When I'm standing or wading I put the reel at or near the top of the handle for optimum balance, but if I'm crouched down behind reeds and want to make use of the full length of the rod I don't want eight inches of rod butt sticking out pointlessly behind me, so I move the reel down to midway.

As for the reel coming loose, this only seems to happen with modern reels with a steeply tapered graphite foot - especially when combined with the inferior, soft, pre-formed cork sections most rod manufaturers use these days. My Mitchells and Aerials have slim metal feet that properly tapered sliding fittings grip perfectly. I haven't had a reel fall off since I got rid of my original JW Avon with its useless abbreviated foam handle.

Fred Blake said:

So it's your fault! Humphh...

Click to expand...

Usually, yes. But sometimes it's the other Jeff. We take turns!

Ah the Olivers of Knebworth 1lb 2oz tc 10 footer! One of the best chub rods ever, especially when I spliced in a sensitive quiver tip. Infortunately some toe rag stole it with my Abu Ledgerlite and the rest of my gear back in 1989.

And, I've just collected an Aspindale Avon Deluxe in need of a little tlc - can't wait to try it. I need to keep my cane inventory high as I do have a tendency to destroy the odd rod (don't you dare Jeff!).

Seriously though Cliff give one of the modern carbon rods a go - some of the carp match rods are superb all rounders. I've got a Garbolino with a nice soft tip which pulls round almost to the butt under (extreme) pressure without a hint of locking.

geoffmaynard said:

Usually, yes. But sometimes it's the other Jeff. We take turns!

Click to expand...

Yours today!

Sean, Ron...I currently use a pair of North Western carbons for my piking - EXCELLENT...a pair of really good 'cheapo' carbon 4-piecers (9ft) EXCELLENT...a pair of 12ft Simpsons carbon tench rods and the late Martin Gay's 9.5ft carbon leger rods...ALL GOOD RODS. However, I've had two 15ft float rods and a 14ft float rod snap like drinking straws...dink! GONE. I've also had TWO telescopic pike rods - from a renowned maker - snap just above the handle.

So...I do appreciate the advantages of carbon even if I am becoming wary of carbon match and telescopic rods.

Thanks for your advice, Fred.

I think there may be a big difference between the best carbon float rods that can cost up to £400 and the cheap ones that cost under £150. The quality of cloth and resins may make a difference. I know there's a difference in the action and weight. The best ones I have were either made in the UK or Japan.