cakey's test

R

roto fryer 1

Guest
in one of cakey's drunken rantings he stated that he was going to test barbed and barbless hooks, to see which caused more damage, on a piece of steak or something.
my question is as follows
"is it possible to design a test to see whether a barbed or barbless hook causes more damage to a carp?"
personally i think its impossible but we will go into that later
 
F

Frothey

Guest
dont think you can prove this either way. for every person that says barbed are worse, someone else will say barbless. are rmc wrong to ban barbless? their fishes mouth on the whole seem ok.....as do the lakes that ban barbed. different fish will have different mouths....
 
C

Cakey

Guest
Roto Ive designed the perfect test.................Trush has got a pond with two indentical sized carp so Im going to catch one on barbed and the other on barbless then Im going to inspect.............
 
C

Cakey

Guest
so watch this space on Sat when I go live in a garden near you.............
 
B

Big Rik

Guest
I performed some testing a few years ago on both a lump of hard wax and some pork fat (I have said this on here before) and my testing (although not scientific) showed that barbed hooks caused less of a hole than barbless.
I tried several things, including pulling hard directly, slow sideways movements, a ping over the dorsal, sideways sawing etc etc
Where available, the barbless versions were used, but when not, then I crushed down the barb on standard hooks and if they left a bump, then they performed pretty much the same as the barbed version.

The flip side of the argument is that barbless hooks cause less damage on unhooking for less experienced anglers.

Lake/club owners/officials have to determine their clientele and look at the best option.

RMC have obviously decided that their anglers are less likely to cause damage on unhooking compared to the damage caused by barbless hooks.
 
L

Les Clark

Guest
As I stated on another thread,Mid Kent water`s have banned barblesshook`s,this is mainly to do with one of their lake`s,"mainline" whice used to be called "chilham mill", some year`s that lake will be solid with weed,I have reeled about 6 lb of weed in and then found a tench hooked,not knowing it was there,in conditions like this , this is when the barbless hook`s do most damage.
I agree with Rik that unhooking with barbless for the less experienced would lead to less damage, but not if they are hauling fish in in the first place (scared of dropping them),then the damage is allready done.
 
B

Blunderer

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I personally believe that barbless definitely do less damage.
Th point is the unhooking of the fish, not the hooking, as Big Rik says. After using barbless for years, I used barbed hooks for a while this summer as I was using worms for barbel. I was quite shocked with the strong hold these barbs gave, and personally felt quite uncomfortable with the difficulty I had sometimes with awkward hookholds. I had forgotten about this. In fact I remember as a kid that soemtimes we would cut the line because we couldn't get the hook out! My point is that there will always be kids and inexperienced anglers on commercial and club waters so we have to keep things as safe as possible.
Incidentally, the worst hook damage I have ever seen was at a caravan site called "Lowfields" in Lincolnshire. Iwent several times two years ago as I was seeing a girl who owned a caravan on there.
This place was populated mainly by general float/course anglers. I fished properly for carp and absolutely murdered them but every one had serious long term mouth damage.
The place had a strict barbless only policy which it had had for years. Harldly anyone ever fished for the carp.
I thought about this for a while and my conclusion was this damage was because float anglers were hooking and losing these carp and they were regularly trailing tackle around, getting it stuck etc.
 
W

Wolfman Woody

Guest
I say it's mainly due to how you remove the hook. I have even seen programmes on TV where the hook is wiggled around from side to side before pulling it out. That can cause damage.

Best in my view is to take all tension off the line and see how the hook lies in the flesh. The with fingers if it's practical or forceps if it isn't (and certainly if it's barbed) take the hook out the way it went in. The forceps must grip the hook on the bend if possible or even up the shank to the point and keep the pull steady and straight.

After that, I don't see what difference barbed or barbless make, especially with big hooks. I must say that I have to use barbeless because of rules for carp, but I prefer to use crushed barbs for all my barbel fishing. They work beautifully.
 
L

Les Clark

Guest
Blunderer,"Lowfield had a strict barbless policy for year`s" (common factor).
Float angler`s: Low b/s ? small barbless hook`s? what would they be fishing for?
 
L

Les Clark

Guest
Jeff why do you use crushed barb`s instead of barbless for barbel fishing?
 
F

Frothey

Guest
i dont think you can really compare between pastie waters and proper waters. a water thats match fished will always have more mouth damage purely beacause the fish are caught more.

if riks found that crushed barbs give the advantage of barbs in terms of hookhold, but are as easy to get out as barbless, then doesnt that seem to be the solution?
 
L

Les Clark

Guest
I also feel that another BIG factor is,the person useing them at the time.
Cakey may use one on barbed and one on barbless in Trush`s pond (don`t think Trush will be to happy,a Caky gnome),but Caky has year`s of experienice and will know how to handle it,as would most of the F/M member`s,but in the wrong inexperieniced hand`s ,to my mind the barbless would lead to damaged mouth`s.
My p/b a 32lb mirror, a year ago ?that was badly damaged(old scar`s around the mouth)my hookhold was clean.
 
L

Les Clark

Guest
Dave,I agree,but still see a crushed barb as a barbed hook,has micro as it is.
Splitting hair`s maybe,but as you may have noticed,totaly against barbless.
 
M

Malcolm Bason

Guest
I personally think that waters reverting back to the barbed only rule are following a fad!

Why were barbless introduced in the first place?

I understand it was because of the damage barbed hooks made?

........just asking loik?
 
F

Frothey

Guest
maybe its because the fish are worsh now with barbless?

i did see on rmc that they were THINKING of making thorpe lea a barbless water, due to the amount of beginners fishing it. anywhere else they feel that an experienced angler/barbed are better.
 
C

Cakey

Guest
Thrush just got me on MSN and said "up yours pal" so anyone else willing with a pond ................................
 
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