Quandary

Tim Birch · Sep 28, 2004

I wonder what you maight think to this. Any advice would be appreciated.

Have started fishing a smallish pit recently with carp upto 30 lbs.
I'm not looking to establish a bait as sessions will be sporadic and short, however have caught single carp around 4lbs on tiger nuts and fruit special, however have since found out that a going bait is the trigga ice (shelflife)which has proved much better results initially (8 fish a session)over varying sizes of pellets maize and tigers.

I am under the impression that alot of this bait has gone in to this pit and have caught small carp only from 3-6lbs in weight. the larger fish (even doubles) seem to be eluding me.

It seems I may have to rethink so the options I have come up with are as follows:

1- Stick with Trigga Ice shelflives at 14mm as they catch.

2- Purchase Trigga Ice Feezerbaits at 18mm+

3- Make my own Trigga Ice in varying shapes and sizes and/or large pasteballs.

4- Switch to particles eg. Maples, maize, nuts etc.

Any suggestions as to which option to take and reasons why would be appreciated.

Tim Birch · Sep 28, 2004

Just in acse you were wondering the fish are in there but may have been hammered.

jason fisher · Sep 28, 2004

if there's one 30 and 3000 single fish in there you're unlikely to catch a 30.

personally i'd get one bag of the freezer baits and give em a go on one rod.

jason fisher · Sep 28, 2004

i'd also use a high attract bait on the other rod with some thing like strawberry flavour.

Tim Birch · Sep 28, 2004

There are a few twenties and more doubles, however I've got into thinking the 'wiser' fish know too well the 14mm shelf lives.

Frothey · Sep 28, 2004

maybe the wiser fish just know trigga too well....

i'd do the other way....low flavour attract, no pellet, not many freebies so the pasties dont get on it too quickly...

have you seen the twenties and thirties?

Tim Birch · Sep 28, 2004

just twenties and doubles, not too bothered if there are thirties or not.

Would you say trigga ice is high attract?

Stuart Dennis · Sep 29, 2004

Frothey how does keeping to a single bait and keeping freebies down to a minimum slow the pasties getting on it quickly?

Sorry mate, but how you've come to that conclusion is far beyond me and seems unfounded? Please explain?

Putting less bait in is not necessarily going to make it easier for bigger fish to single out your hookbait over pasties!

Tim, spend more time on what your are doing so you may really evaluate your findings. Keep trigga on one rod and instead of buying a bigger size, double up your 14mil on another and then try a tiger nut on the other (if using three rods of course). Continue experimenting with your loose feed across all rods with different varieties and quantities with stringers and pva bags until you find a positive pattern that starts to work for you. Bait is bait is bait, and Trigga ICE is as good as any.

Ive got loads more thoughts on this as this is a topic I put a lot of thought into but I am too tired now but will post more tomorrow.

Bryan Baron 2 · Sep 29, 2004

This is only a thought as there are far better Carp anglers on here but if you are being pestered by small Carp would it not be advisable to put plenty of feed in and fish the edges. majking sure you keep plenty of food going into the middle. You can use something cheap like Vitalin. This would keep the small carp busy and the larger more cautious fish will be on the outside where they feel safer.

Just a thought.

Frothey · Sep 29, 2004

did i say single bait?
because it works on a few waters down here. put groundbait/pellet/high flavour boilie in and the shoals of little'uns are straight on it, same with using pva bags. yet spread around a couple of handfulls of bait and fish stringers, you avoid most of it.
i've tried loads of times to keep piling in the bait, but rarely caught anything much above low doubles, yet when you dont pile it in, you get fewer, bigger fish

something i've learned by experience.....

Stuart Dennis · Sep 29, 2004

mmmm......so high flavour baits only attract shoals of small carp? I think its a dangerous game stating that to pick up Big fish you use low attractor baits and bait sparingley and to catch shoals of smaller fish you pile it in.

Stuart Dennis · Sep 29, 2004

Sorry mate, but what a crock of shit!

Tim Birch · Sep 29, 2004

Like your thinking Bryan. This is something I have tried in the margins on commercials to good effect to single out the bigger fish.
Trying washed out baits (or rehydrated?) was also an idea I had which would be low attract, but found that recast hookbaits did'nt do as well for the smaller fish as fresh ones. Maybe better for larger fish coupled with a tad more patience?
I think vitalin may be a problem when spodding as I get the feeling it may clog up in the spod when damp. I imagine it floats when dry.
Any more comments would be appreciated.

Frothey · Sep 29, 2004

so what you're saying is pile it in and use high attract then? high attract singles is one thing, a bed of it is another. you piled the bait in at le mans didnt you?

its not that they only attract small fish, its just the small fish seem to get onto them first.

dont you think there is a small possibility that the older fish have wised up to big beds of bait?

Frothey · Sep 29, 2004

if you read what tim says, he's fishing over pellet/maize/tigers - maybe thats why he's getting the smaller fish. or maybe he should be piling more in?

stu · Sep 29, 2004

Well - when I go trotting on the river the first thing that happens is the small fish start homing in. With patience and continual feeding the big girls and boys eventually muscle in. In fact I would worry if I didn't get the little ones first as they act beacons.

Its much the same at a local club water that I go to with my son. Its has a medium stocking density, up to 20lbs. You can bet your home on the fact that, using the method and casting regularly, you will catch single figure carp for some time, it will then go quiet and you then get into a few doubles. It is a pattern that never fails.

However, as per usual, you still have to fish to known features, island margins etc. Just lumping it out in the middle does no good. As for baits, I find it makes very little difference.

Les Clark · Sep 29, 2004

Tim,you can make up the vitalin a couple of day`s before,make it up into ball`s whatever size you want,freeze it and it`s ready for when you neep it.
But remember the old saying,you can pile it in but you can`t take it out.

Tim Birch · Sep 29, 2004

Nice idea Les.
Stu- I think therefore they may patrol the edges of the baited pach until the smaller fish dwindle?

Dont really want to direct this thread in another dimension but would trigga ice liquid used with a different base mix be as effective?

Frothey · Sep 29, 2004

i'd stick to the same bait, just change the application.

i wouldnt say trigga ice is high attract, its just a "thinner" version, so leaks off quicker.

you have to understand the difference between high attract and highly attractive! most people call brightly coloured overflavoured baits high attract. a tiger nut is obviously highly attractive, but doesnt smell of much. betaine doesnt smell of much, but fish find it attractive.

you could put together a semo/soya bait with a some flavour, a bit of sweetner in it and the fish will take it, but they'll soon wise up to the fact that the promise of food is shortlived.
add some minamino to the bait and the minamino will actually do them some good, and being soluble it will leak off and attract the fish. but being soluble it will soon dissapear and your back to a lump of soya/semo. so we added some milk proteins to it to boost the nutrition.
add some fishmeal, now you're adding a different flavour/texture to the bait, and also nutritious, something that doesnt dissolve out. add a little oil to make it roll easier
add a few spices, a few seeds, insoluble ingredients and you're maintaining a taste to the bait, even after it being in the water for hours.

you could then drop your flavour levels a lot (or entirely) as the bait will have enough natural smell, enough soluble ingredients to give the attraction without relying on artificial flavours and enough insoluble ones to keep the bait attractive after all the soluble ones have leaked off

Frothey · Sep 29, 2004

potted sweeping history of boilie development!

dont get me wrong, my current bait has a low level flavour in it (because i like the smell), and i do use a lot of bait, but usually only if i've got time to sit on it. on short sessions on more pressured waters i use very little these days, unless i can see the fish "having it"

the water i mentioned earlier - stafford moor - pellets are definately the kiss of death. if you look at peoples catch returns (and reports on various sites), they might have say 40 fish over 3 days, but only 10 or so are doubles. me and a few of the regulars hardly use any bait whilst fishing, yet we catch very few pasties. 5 hours last week, 4 doubles between 14 and 18lb, the week before 36hrs, 11 doubles, 1 twenty and only 1`pastie. i only used stringers.

in contrast a biggish ressy near me i'll put in at least 10k of bait (whether particles or pellet and boilies) evertime i fish it, but then i'm not being "pestered" by smaller fish. different lakes, different situations, all i can say is if you're not happy with a method, try something different!

Quandary

Well-known member

Well-known member

jason fisher

Guest

jason fisher

Guest

Well-known member

Frothey

Guest

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Frothey

Guest

New member

New member

Well-known member

Frothey

Guest

Frothey

Guest

New member

Les Clark

Guest

Well-known member

Frothey

Guest

Frothey

Guest