Snapped Mono Hooklengths

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Milo

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Hi

My girlfriend and I recently fished for carp on a smallish private water with a silty bottom. She was using a feeder rod spooled up with 8lb line using a running rig with a 1/2oz groundbait feeder, with a 6lb hooklength. Whilst this setup was fine for catching her 13lb carp from the K&A canal, she suffered two snapped hooklengths when fishing the same corner of an island. I was wondering, would using materials such as Kryston's snake bite help solve her problem? The mono she was using for hooklinks, I also used on my carp rods with no problems, and her rigs were fresh and the 5-turn grinner I used to tie on the swivel looked fine. The line didn't snap at the knot, or at the hook (attached with the knotless knot), but somewhere in between.

Any ideas?
 
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jason fisher

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moisten the knots more when you tie em it sounds like the line might be suffering from tightening the knot up and if you don't want a silty bottom sit on a chair.
 
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Milo

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Cheers Jason, though I'm not totally convinced that's the reason as I always moisten the lines when I'm tying my knots... plus the lengths broke in a place where the line wouldn't have been burnt by tightening up the knot? I may be wrong of course.

If I've still got the line, then I'll try tying a few rigs up and seeing how they fair pulling on them outside of the water! I've got a feeling though that I may have popped the spool in the dustbin when I left?
 
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sash

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"MMMM I need a girl which i can take fishing"

Don't do it fella, it leads to trouble. Where're you going to escape to then? The kitchen?

You'll often find that a mono hooklength will snap nowhere near the knot despite being caused by a badly tied knot or, which I suspect could be the case here, a knot not suitable for the mono being used. A knotless knot can weaken mono, and especially flourocarbons,dramatically.
 
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Milo

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Interesting. So, for hair rigged baits, would I be better using another material if continuing with a knotless-knot hair-rig, or should I attached a seperate hair, and use another knot, such as a five-turn grinner or palomar, for attaching the hook?

Michael, as sash says, it does lead to trouble. Mostly with her rubbing it in when she's either catching more or bigger fish than myself!

Oh, and the line has been disposed of!
 
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Neil Laing

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Milo,
I would say that 6lb hook length is right on the limit as a minimum for carp. Unless you've loads of space to let them run I would expect to loose a fair percentage.
Neil.
 
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sash

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What line are you using Milo?

As Neil says using 6lb line you're going to have to take it very easy with carp. Any weed or snags around at all and it's bye bye carp. I wouldn't go anywhere less than 10lb hooklength for decent carp nowadays.
 
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Stuart Harvey

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try doing some tests on the line, she might have a dodgy batch
 
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Milo

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Sash, the mainline was 8lb Maxima, and the 6lb hook-length material was made by Ockert. It had been good up until this outing, or rather, I'd not had any trouble until recent. I sometimes use Daiwa line for the hooklength material.

I've caught carp into double figures on my float rod with 4lb Maxima. Maybe I don't play the fish hard at all, or I'm just lucky!?

Should I not really worry about the visibility of using thicker mono lines? I guess I'd be better using say a 12-15lb mainline with a 10-12lb hooklength if it meant that I banked the same amount (or more!?) fish?

Stuart, unfortunately, I've already gotten rid of the one and only spool of it that I had, or I would have tried a few simple and crude tests. Even just to see where the line broke under strain.
 
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Bryan Baron 2

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I have been using Krystonite for hair rigs when barbel fishing had barbel to double figures no problems.

On tightlines kieths guest was using 10Ib fluro with size 14 buzzers with out any presentation problems the fish still jumped all over the fly. Moral if the fish can't see it no matter what strength line your using always go for the stronger.
 
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sash

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There's probably nothing wrong with the line you've binned though I must admit I haven't heard of it. I'd step up to a 10lb flourocarbon as others have suggested, tie it as previous with a grinner or a palomar to the swivel and knotless knot as before.

What hooks are you using? If the model has a down-turned eye you'll notive the angle of line exiting the hook being quite severe. This does aid hooking but can damage flourocarbon type lines. With a 10 or even 12lb hooklength the amount lost in stregth will at least be better than the 6lb you were using.

Why not tie up a couple of rigs and test them before you fish?
 
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Milo

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Bryan/Sash, cheers for even more input. The hooks we were using at the time where Drennan Barbless Super Specimen in a size 8, which doesn't have a turned eye.

I need to visit the tackle shop to get other bits and pieces, so I'll get some better line at the same time and tie up some new rigs as you suggest.

Cheers all!
 
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Stuart Dennis

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Hi Milo, I'm favouring a snaggy bottom may have been the issue. Perhaps a sharp rock if you say that both times you were in the same spot. It could have also have been sheer strength and a little lack of experience. Carp have a known tendency to know where to run too and why etc. So it could be a renowned ?get out of jail free card? snag. It just seems strange that the line broke twice and not at the knot. I?d definitely agree with the boys here though, if targeting carp, you?ve got to step up. You?ll tend to find that the smaller the carp the more torpedo like their flight. Carp between 5-15lb are renowned to bolt very aggressively, the bigger the carp the slower the plod etc.

With regard to your question about ?Should I not really worry about the visibility of using thicker mono lines?? then the answer is dependant on your set-up. If you use silicone tubing down the line it will protect the both the line and the carp in theory (although there are many different opinions about this), so covering the line with a 1 meter length then the visibility of the line can be deemed irrelevant. With regard to your hooklength, based on the issues you have described, go for Snakebite gold at 15 or 25lb and peel back the last 2-3 inched before the hook. Snakebite is a simple low diameter braid coated with plastic to protect the braid.

Although this will obviously bulk up the strength of the set-up you are used to, it will certainly give you the confidence in changing the direction of a feisty carp on a mission.

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
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Milo

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I showed this thread to the missus and she says she had the clutch set fairly light at the time, so I suppose the fish could've snagged the hooklength up on something on that island corner in order to rid itself of the rig.

Your point about line visibility when using tubing more or less answers me as we do indeed use tubing though it was accidentally left at home this time.

Whilst on the subject of upping the line, is it not a bad idea to use a higher breaking strain for the hooklength than the mainline? I've always used hooklengths of the same or lower strengths before now. Is a short mono hooklength be any 'weaker' than a longer one in that there is less of it to stretch before it eventually breaks? I'm probably just trying to complicate the whole thing now...

I'm definitely going to increase the breaking strain of the mainline as well as the hooklength though! I'd much rather we banked a few fish, than lose a lot of fish.

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions, most appreciated as ever :)
 
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Stuart Dennis

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There is a constant argument regarding higher hook lengths to lower main line and vice versa, so don't get tangled in that one Milo. As long as you use the safest rigs possible (anti tether/anti-death rig), then you should be fine. Put your thinking cap on and ask your self everytime before casting out "if this rig snagged, would the fish be as safe as it could possibly be the rig on your line?".

Your question Milo " Is a short mono hooklength any 'weaker' than a longer one in that there is less of it to stretch before it eventually breaks? I'm probably just trying to complicate the whole thing now...? It?s an interesting question in that if you were a little further on with your carping (please do not take any offence by that comment) I would say, for get about strengths and comparing strengths, but concentrate on what benefits there are by lengthening and shortening your hooklenghts, but we should get you banking a few more before we stuck into all that.

As a starting guide I would suggest you use something like a 8-10 inch hooklength with either braid or mono. Go for a recommended brand to start with just for security purposes, and then as you move through, start playing and we can challenge and advise on here. Fox or Kryston are well recognised.

Happy to help
 
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Milo

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I didn't get chance to respond yesterday. We've been using Solar Running Rigs, mostly because initially we suffered from tangles and the tubing seemed to solve this. I don't mind a bit of trial and error when fishing, so long as I'm not putting the lives of the fish at risk.

No offence taken, it was just one of the thoughts that were buzzing around my head that afternoon after her two breaks!

My hooklengths were in the region you suggest so I'm some of the way there already. I've got 12 and 15lb Maxima line which I can use, and I'll get hold of some snakebite too. I'm really looking forward to the next outing now!
 
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