Is there a place for Specimen Groups Now ?

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Bob Hornegold 3

Guest
At the end of last year a group of Friends started a New Specimen Group.

Within my own set fishing mates everyone set new personnal best's due to the sharing of information and help within the new group.

Do you think there is still a place for the Specimen Group ?

Bob
 
T

The Monk

Guest
Yes most certainly, I`ve ran the Manchester Carp Group since 1976 and many of the members are now old friends who go back to its early beginings of 28 years ago, some of the original NASG groups go back still further, group advantages include, social get togethers and communication amongst like minded friends with similar interests, the chance to become involved with baiting campaigns, pooled knowledge on local waters, tackle exchange sales between members, and support for National groups through affiliation etc. Good luck to this new organisation, an excellent tradition in specialist angling
 
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The Monk

Guest
In the Northwest we have the St Helens group, who have been about since the late 60s, in 1992 I helped set up the Bolton SG, a very active group with some exceptional anglers in its midst. In fact I believe the Northern Specimen Hunters Group still exists and they date back to early 1962 when Ron Clay founded the organisation. On National Groups, we still have the National Anguilla Club who date back to December 1962 (founded by Arthur Sutton). I really hope the SGs is one tradition which never dies out!
 
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Ron Troversial Clay

Guest
The NSG was never officially disbanded. The Coventry Group still meet from time to time as do the Northamptonshire Group.

The 60s however were heady days and we will never get that sort of aymosphere again.
 
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The Monk

Guest
Quite a number of groups still get together and survive, I think the Rockingham, Hallamshire groups still meet up, The Scottish Carp Group are very active and have some excellent waters North of the border, yes the atmosphere has sadly gone Ron, since the rise in commecialism and freedom of information, more written material, access to waters, growth in private transport a lot of the old myths have vanished and the golden years are no more. Still its nice to hear of New SGs following this fine tradition, much better to be in a group, you then have the choice to fish with group members or go it alone. If for nothing else, the Group membership list is an excellent outlet when the wife runs off, sure beats the Samaritans

(many of who know absolutely nothing about Carp fishing)
 
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The Monk

Guest
Anybody know if the Cork Carp Catchers Club is still in existance?
 
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Ron Troversial Clay

Guest
For any of you who are thinking of forming a specimen group, here are a few words of advice from someone who has been through that mill.

Attitude is important. The specimen group is similar in many ways to the old hunting bands of many years past where animals and fish were hunted for food. Today we don't hunt fish for food however, well, certainly not coarse fish.

The motto of a specimen group should be: "All for one and one for all". It should not matter in the group who catches the fish, as long as one of us does.

Secondly, keep the group small. No more than 20 members. A specimen group should not be like a single species organisation such as the Carp or Barbel Society.

Thirdly, get togther regularly and compare notes, successful methods and catches. There should be no secrecy amongst the members.

You will also find if you share transport costs you will be able to fish places you could have never fished as an individual.

Well that is how it was in my day.

Good Luck.
 
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The Monk

Guest
That was of course the original ethos of the old SGs, in more recent years though, the thinking changed slightly in that some felt they didnt always wish to disclose certain information on going waters at the time, so the ethics were relaxed, while later groups tended to rely more on the social side than the actual sharing of all knowledge although 90% of the knowledge is normally shared. This allance did prevent some in fighting, the thing which can often break groups up. Various reasons can be given for not wanting to share information, in my own group I was once in the position that I had accurred some exclusive fishing, but was told in no strict terms, that I could only take one other person at any one time, hench I explained the situation to the group, and took them one at a time, without disclosing the location at the time. Other honararble reasons also exist for not wishing to disclose everything at the time, this is not secrecy, something which I am totally indifferent too.
 
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Bob Hornegold 3

Guest
Thanks for the advise Gentlemen,

I would certainly agree with everything you have said.

The sharing of information within the group is indeed the most important factor as far as I'm concerned.

And Trust that the information shared is kept within the membership.

Otherwise the Group soon becomes fragmented, if members cannot trust one another.

I was a member of a couple of well known specimen groups before the advent of single species groups.

And although they faded away I learnt most of my fishing skills from the older and wiser anglers in those groups.

As Ron has stated, a group of around 20 anglers seem to work best and multi species anglers sharing information helps the whole group to improve their P Bs.

Do you think the Group members should be local to one another or at least a number of the membership ?

Five of our group fish together regularly and share information on different species.

But the Group is spead across London and the Home Counties and keep in contact via a Website.

Would you say this is advantage ?

I have certainly gained a lot from belonging to the New Group and hope a few more groups will start up to form a strong Specimen Hunter movement similar to the Old Days.

Bob
 
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Ron Troversial Clay

Guest
The Northern Specimen Hunters was concentrated in and around Sheffield and Rotherham, although **** Clegg lived and still does, in Barnsley. Barrie Rickards lived in Cambridge of course and I think he was regarded for a period as an associate member.

It would be a marvellous idea for a modern group to have it's own website with a password to prevent all and sundry getting on it.

The old groups had what were known as rotary letters. The modern equivalent for this would be a website.
 
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The Monk

Guest
Do you think the Group members should be local to one another or at least a number of the membership ?


Hi Bob, the Manchester Group at its height had a membership of 55 with one in Spain and two in South Africa and its worked quite well, it definately helps with information it the group is both dispearsed and local.

Whats the new of the New group Bob?
 
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Ron Troversial Clay

Guest
We had a list of what were defined as recordable fish. That means they went into the groups records book.

If I remember right the recordable fish in the NSHG were as follows:

Roach: 1lb
Bream: 4 lbs
Tench: 31/2 lbs
Pike: 10 lbs
Chub: 3 lbs
Dace: 8 oz
Carp: 10 lbs
Perch: 1 1/2 lbs
Eel: 2 lbs
Rudd: 1 lbs
Grayling: 1 1/2 lbs
Trout: 2 lbs
Barbel: 5 lbs

They don't seem very big today but I can tell you such fish in the 60s were big, especially around Yorkshire.

I created a prize called the Ron Clay Trophy. I wasn't allowed to win it myself but I was given the right to award it to whom I thought had achieved the most meritorious catch. The winners of that trophy were:

Ray Webb, John Weston, Steve Crawshaw and Tag Barnes.
 
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The Monk

Guest
Took me a long time to catch my first 10lb carp, how things change, my lad had taken 7 thirties by the time he was 15
 
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ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

Guest
I actually made front page news in Angling Times and Anglers Mail with a 5 1/2 lb tench in the 70s and now they don't even get a mention My next mention for tench was with a brace (believed to be the biggest in a session in the North West)of 10lb.13oz and 9lb.7oz
 
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Michael Townsend 3

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Ron, if you were to start your group today what do you think your recordable wheights would be ?
 
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Ron Troversial Clay

Guest
Roach: 1 1/2 lbs,
Dace: 8 oz
Bream: Stillwater - 10 lbs, River 7 lbs
Chub: 5 lbs
Carp: 35 lbs
Tench: 7 lbs
Pike: 15 lbs
Barbel: 10 lbs
Rudd: 2 lbs
Grayling: 1 1/2 lbs
Brown Trout: 3 lbs river, 5 lbs stillwater.
Eel: 3 lbs.

Something like that.
 
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Michael Townsend 3

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Its interesting how many target weights have inreased by 100% or more. I wonder what the recordable weights would be in another 20 years. The carp, barbel tench and bream all seem to be gradually increasing in size.
 
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Les Clark

Guest
I belonged to such a group back in the 80`s,all mate`s,about 20 of us,after a time it had split up into little "click`s",to much back biteing and bitching,soon went my own way.
 
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Bob Hornegold 3

Guest
Sorry for the delay in returning your posts, but it is Christmas, where I'm expected to go and play with the Grandchildrens toys?

The name of the Group is best kept quite, the first year has produced some interesting results.

I'm really not sure what some of the membership wanted from the group, but it was not to all tastes.

As far as I'm concerned Specimen Fishing is about the pursuit of Specimen fish, as opposed to the the pleasure angler who just want to catch anything.

Of course there is a place for Fish-ins and socials but has very little to do with the idea of the old Specimen Groups, which tented to be more about small groups of lads working together.

Has the single species fish-ins and BBQs become the norm, in organised fishing trips ?

Or is it the Matchmans mentality that wants a trophy at the end of the year ?

We had so many Great Captures within the Group that it would be impossible to pick a one above another.

Who knows what the second year will produce or who will renew their membership, but I'm certain some of the lads have gained a great deal from being members of an Old style Specimen Group.

Bob
 
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