Jeff's New Reel Seat

GrahamM · Feb 8, 2005

This is an excellent and well thought out design by Jeff and with more input from other anglers/engineers who can enhance the good work Jeff has already done I don?t see why it shouldn?t, at some time in the future, become a reality.

My first thoughts were that we need to keep production costs down in order to make the new design more attractive to would-be manufacturers. To start with Jeff?s idea involves modifications to both reel seat and foot, so I asked myself why we needed to alter the reel foot at all. I can see that we don?t need the reel foot to be as long as it is now, but for production purposes, at least initially, why not accommodate the current reel foot size into the new seat design?

So come on, let?s hear what others have to say.

woody · Feb 8, 2005

On reflection and after reading Graham's comment about the length of the reel foot, I do admit that a compromise could be reached about the length it has to be.

You will notice in my drawing where it says 1" as length and yet the very small reel I adapted I left at 1?". So just in between the two, the painting and the trial, the design has already been adapted.

I am sure there must be a way of resolving this whereby we have reel seats that would take the old and new sizes of reel foot.

I know I make a sarcastic funny comment about Yorkshiremen, but please, try to keep the comments on a serious note. This is because one thing I intend doing is printing off both articles and all of your postings and sending them to Greg Holloway who imports the Fuji reel seats.

What doing these articles has made me realise is that we have put up with second rate reel seats for too long now. We are in th 21st century and it's time we had comfortable handles and reel seats on our rods.

woody · Feb 8, 2005

Just remember these other Edward de Bono sayings from his website -

If you do not design the future someone or something else will design it for you.
We may need to solve problems not by removing the cause but by designing the way forward even if the cause remains in place.
Traditional thinking is all about "what is" Future thinking will also need to be about what can be.

So what can be?

Mark Wintle · Feb 8, 2005

Jeff,
Having experimented on these lines more than most I suggest you test your 1" reel foot with a reel loaded with 10lb line. Mount on rod as shown. Tie line to fence post. Point rod at fence post. Pull for break. See what happens!

I think you might find that the stresses cause problems?

Tell us the result.

This seems a heavy test but it is one that will happen.

To get a longer foot accommodated but with much more of the foot covered would need the ability to adapt to different tapers.

Graham Whatmore · Feb 8, 2005

My initial thoughts when I read your article Jeff were, bearing in mind that we use cork handles:-

1. The `T' of the reel fitting would need to be a much slimmer design than it is at present.

2. There would be a need for some sort of independant support between the cork and the seating, otherwise it would be very fragile and not fisherman proof.

3. This may result in the handle becoming thicker.

4. The idea looks sound but is it practical from an engineering point of view. I hope so because it certainly looks like an improvement on the present design which, like you say, is traditional rather than modern.

Jim Gibbinson · Feb 8, 2005

The ergonomic shortcomings of conventional screw-winch fittings on rods intended for use with fixed-spool reels would be mitigated by the simple expedient of mounting the fitting the correct way around (i.e. with the screw-thread uppermost). The current convention for attaching the fitting thread-down has absolutely no basis in logic.

woody · Feb 8, 2005

Always game for a laugh so I tried out Mark's test. Tied some 10lb Nash bullet to the fence post. Are you free one weekend now, Mark, to help me put in a new fence post? Tied it to the clothes line post and line broke near the reel, not the knot. No effect on the reel foot or the seat at all, solid as a rock.

What I would question why you would pull for a break from the reel? I always wind the line around my sleeve a few times, turn my back to the weight (in case it comes flying out and hits me) and then pull for a break. That's another topic though.

So test done and my little old modified Daiwa has passed it's second test.

woody · Feb 8, 2005

Oh and about the "would need the ability to adapt to different tapers." That's why I am saying that the measurements (and that would include the tapers) should standardised. If they can standardise washers on taps, lengths of flourescent light tubes and things, threads on cameras, ......... I'm sure we can do it with reels.

mark williams 4 · Feb 8, 2005

I loved the aesthetics of Jeff's design but I'm not sure it brings much to the party. The problem he, and any tackle designer, has is that some part of the fitting has to be conventional, or we're starting from scratch with both rods and reels. I can offer as a parallel the fact that lorry wheels are fitted with studs and nuts. The wheels fall off (nearside rear, almost always) due to a complex physical principle. If they fitted with a single, threaded collar aka F1 wheels, they wouldn't come off. Guess why nobody's converting wheels and hubs to a better design?
In fact, there's no reason why we couln't have an alloy sleeve round the blank where the reel fits and some type of bayonet fitting on the reel stem, or, for that matter, make the reel 'foot' a standardised, short section of rod into which the tip and butt fit.
But I'll tell you what I'd like. I'd like the manufacturers to actually measure the distance between the apex of thumb and forefinger and the tip of a forefinger on a man's hand AND STOP MAKING REEL STEMS FIVE INCHES LONG! Just because the Yanks are too moronic to control the line with forefinger pressure on the lip of the spool doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to.
It might also help if they got the Chinese to build reels with cast alloy, milled stainless, brass, and other recognisable metals in a way that they also actually fit together properly. I had an engineer examine a modern fixed spool. After removing the side plate he laughed. I think he said carp, or maybe an anagram of carp...

Baz · Feb 8, 2005

I think G.Whatmore already mentioned it but, the screw winch part that locks the reel into place might be better made of some other material and then sprayed over with a cork material.
Otherwise the cork in this area would be too thin and break easily when tightening the reel down.

alan strickland · Feb 8, 2005

Cant help thinking that whats needed is a better angled stem on the reel that would allow the position of the attachment to the rod to be moved fowards up the rod but leaving the reel handle and spool lip in the same place as it is now below your hand.
That way you would be gripping only the rod handle with the reel foot attaching to the rod in front your grip on the rod instead of between you fingers.

Mark Wintle · Feb 9, 2005

Jeff,

Bag of ready mix concrete in the mail, recipient pays COD.

Can't help thinking that Roy Marlow's design is the best as it works with the millions of reels out there. As the biggest reel market is the USA the chance of change is zilch. As most of us like to use older rods these would struggle with the new foot design as well.

As we discussed before, an add-on to existing reel seats might be viable. I may change another rod or two this spring.
For trotting, holding a reel stem between second and third fingers is the best option IMO.

To Mark Williams, I've found the latest generation of Shimano reels to have better proportions for trotting than most with shorter reel stems (eg Shimano Stradic GTM RA)

woody · Feb 9, 2005

Mark Wintle - I sent Graham an Email this morning saying how good the Abu one is. If it is Roy Marlow's design then good on him, because the more I think about it the more I think it is quite close to being perfect, for the present foot.

I still think that some shortening of the foot could be achieved though that would make the gap between the two halves of the handle's reel seat easier to bridge.

I also showed these to my wife (normally she goes to sleep when I mention fishing things) and she said how what we have in most seats and how we hold them, whether Fuji or other designs, is appalling. We are living with ideas that are truly Victorian and you would NOT accept this level of design or discomfort in any component in your car.

The problem we face is what I call the "Leyland Factor" - When British Leyland developed cars in the 80s a lot of thought (good or bad) was put into the shape and interior until it came to the simple component of the ash tray. For that, their attitude was "Well, stick one of those semi circular things in that we designed for the old A30."

Why? Because it was already there and available and didn't require any extra thinking.

Same with reel seats - Fuji make most of them and they are available and if they are selling. So Fuji are probably thinking, why change? Why fix what isn't broken?

It's now time to change.

woody · Feb 9, 2005

Just as an example I placed a Shimano 4000 Aero reel on my Fox Barbel rod, a good match for size and power, you might say.

The foot of the 4000 goes into the seat of the Fox Barbel rod by just 3mm!

NOT good enough!

Mark Wintle · Feb 9, 2005

Jeff,

You're getting closer to the truth now.

Most rods are not so much as designed as slung together with whatever is around down to the price. Same with reels; It's got a reel foot - good enough.

Not only have I modified several rod handles, I've also got rods with other variations of fittings. One of the best is the Daiwa Tournament fitting that almost absorbs the reel foot. The comfort varies tremendously. I read a comment by Walker that his preference on a carp rod was a screw fitting that could be moved, on a cork handle - he was writing in the fifties.
The old Mitchell Match/300 reel foot is almost too long to fit some rod handles ie Middy. I also had to alter an Adcock Stanton (old model with Aluminium foot) to fit a modern screw fitting.

I don't hold out much hope for the majority of rods/reels when there is so little design input.

If Fuji had an add-on to change their slim reel fitting to be like the ABU one then we might be getting somewhere.

Kevan Farmer · Feb 9, 2005

Does anybody remember the Garcia Mitchell American reel handle design? The one where the reel stem ends not in a foot but a round collar? This was locked onto the rod handle. A good idea where comfort is concerned as you literally had cork butting right up against both sides of the reel stem. It never really prospered other than in the US and even there, not very long. Special rods had to be made and, of course, only Garcia Mitchell made those rods. The other problem was that it still meant the reel stem being in between the fingers. So, to start with why not have the reel stem and foot starting at the back of the reel. This would mean that the reel could still held centrally under the hand thus allowing finger pressure on the spool if required. It would also mean a better grip on the rod. Now, as to the discomfort of the screw fitting. For the downsliding screw collar we do have cork shrouds. The only thing we have to put up with is the rest of the seat. That would need some form of slide over cover that was put into place once the reel was fitted.

Our present method of reel fitting has probably come about because of the way centrepin reels are fitted as a necessity. As the reel evolved so the standard fitting stayed the same :-(

Kevan

Robbie Cragg · Feb 9, 2005

I think we must all be bored. I find the reel seat on my daiwa float rod very comfortable for a full day trotting. i think its called slidelock? (legs get a bit tired though)

Jonathan Whitham · Feb 10, 2005

I'm with Alan and Kevan on this one - why does the reel stem have to be in the middle of the reel? Why not have it right at the back of the reel with no rear attachment lip whatsoever? That way we wouldn't need to wrap our fingers round the reel stem all day. There could be a tongue on the reel bar that locates into a groove on the reel fitting on the rod, ensuring an accurate fit every time. And whilst we're at it, why does the rod handle have to be round? Is this really the most ergonomic shape, or just a throwback to when we had rings that needed to slide on a circular tube?

Peter Knight · Feb 10, 2005

Bob James Masterline rods have superb reel seats. There is no thread showing as its all internal, very nice to hold all day, quality product, but then you would expect that from a rod costing ?250.00. I'm glad my wife doesn't ask how much I spend on tackle !!!!

Jim Gibbinson · Feb 10, 2005

The nicest (in ergonomic terms) reel fittings I've used are fitted to a couple of inexpensive (?30-ish) Leeda light spinning rods that I use for pier fishing for mullet. The fittings are of the screw-down type, with the threads concealed beneath the screw-down section.

Just goes to prove that cost isn't necessarily a factor in getting it right!

Jeff's New Reel Seat

Managing Editor

Very Elderly Member

Very Elderly Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

New member

Very Elderly Member

Very Elderly Member

mark williams 4

Guest

Banned

New member

Well-known member

Very Elderly Member

Very Elderly Member

Well-known member

Kevan Farmer

Guest

Member

New member

New member

New member