HNV baits

Fred Bonney · Aug 29, 2010

Just clearing out my bits and pieces of bait etc in the garage and found buried amongst the groundbaits an unopened 1KG packet of
CC Moore's Power Paste -Ocean HNV-.

Having not used a paste since I was a kid with the old stale bread for tench, I thought I would give it a try.
I can vaguely remember mentions of HNV bait and it attraction qualities, but I have never strayed away from the standard baits.

Does anybody use HNV baits, and if so why and how, and would mixing my sample with hemp water be suitable?

Sean Meeghan · Aug 29, 2010

There is a short piece in this months' Coarse Fisherman by Tony Miles in which he talks about using milk-based high protein boilies on Kickles Farm (Upper Gt Ouse). He claims that barbel would detect these boilies from hundreds of yards away and would then move long distances to find them.

This ties in with the original HNV theory that fish will actively seek out these baits in preference to others. I'm not really convinced of this as I suspect that fish will move long distances to investigate any smell that they recognise as a food signal and that they aren't suspicious of.

I'd give the paste a go Fred, but mix it fairly soft and use it as a wrap rather than using it on its own.

peter crabtree · Aug 29, 2010

What does HNV stand for?

captain carrott · Aug 29, 2010

high nutritional value

peter crabtree · Aug 29, 2010

thanks captain......

captain carrott · Aug 29, 2010

peter crabtree said:
thanks captain......

you're welcome mate.

bigchub · Sep 22, 2010

I can't say I've had experience of fishing for barbel with hnv baits but I have had experience of chub fishing with baits of this type. In my last two trips since using a hnv bait it has transformed my catch rate and the chub on my stretch definitely seem to have preference to boilies rather than the traditional offerings. I even had bites when they were taking it on the drop.
I agree with the theory that fish will actively seek out these baits in preference to others.

alan whittington · Sep 22, 2010

I think a boilie made from the same mix with a wrap of the paste round it is the way forward as it speeds the flavour release.Welcome to FM BC by the way.

sagalout · Sep 23, 2010

Would mixing milk powder with ground pellet make a HNV paste? Or make the paste up from ground pellet with milk instead of water? Ooh what about using condensed milk as the fluid? Blimey, I might try some of these brilliant ideas out once I have used up all my molasses (£3.00 a gallon) that don't seem to make any difference

.

quickcedo · Sep 23, 2010

There seems to be a bit of confusion here re HNV. HNV is an often misused name for high protien baits (milk protien etc) HNV would usually have a protien level of around 35 to 40%. Whereas high protien might be as high as 80% plus. High protien baits in the wrong hands can be the kiss of death to a stretch of river as they can take a long time for the fish to digest.
In my opinion there is never any need to use high protien baits for Barbel.
A good quallity hnv bait will give the fish a balanced food source which, they soon come to recognise as "good for them".
This type of bait however only comes into it's own if you can trickle baits in over a period of time. Although it still catches fish from the off.
Trying to produce your own bait is a great side hobby however, to throw a few bits together and call it hnv just isn't going to work (although it may catch fish)
Treffor West has a great saying. "I want to catch em not feed em"
Something most Barbel anglers would do well to remember.
There is an awfull lot of information re fish nutrition out there if you can be bothered (I have spent nearly 5 years studying it) and to be perfectly honest for the average angler (like me) it's a waste of time. A well presented bait in the right place will always catch more fish!

bigchub · Sep 23, 2010

A good quality hnv bait will give the fish a balanced food source which, they soon come to recognise as "good for them".
This type of bait however only comes into it's own if you can trickle baits in over a period of time. Although it still catches fish from the off.

I couldn't agree more with the above statement. I place my emphasis when using hnv baits entirely on quality of the bait, how it is applied and fish location. Obviously a good bait helps you catch fish but its just one part of the puzzle. As mentioned how the bait is applied is far more important than the actual bait itself. Many people seem to think these days that chucking in handfuls of boilies before they start fishing will help them catch more fish. Not so.

Fred Bonney · Sep 23, 2010

I have to say I've never been a pile it in angler, little and often is the way.

I've mixed up my paste not tried it yet, I like the trickle feed approach of using it, to get them interested though.

Sean Meeghan · Sep 23, 2010

I've never been entirely convinced by the original (Wilton) theory on hnv baits although there did seem to be some logic to it, and he did a fair bit of research into the subject.

One thing that did open my eyes though was a program on E numbers on the beeb a couple of weeks ago. They showed how artificial sweeteners worked and then went on to show how the brain could distinguish instantly between real sugars and the artificial sweeteners. Whilst we don't register this on a concious level it would appear that we might have a tendency to eat more of the food with artificial sweeteners in because our body recognises that it doesn't have the same nutritional value as food with normal sugars in it.

So there might be something in the hnv theory after all!

quickcedo · Sep 24, 2010

Fred, I was not suggesting for one minute you would use a HP bait without due care. My issue with these baits is this.
If you ask John Baker what the biggest problem is with homemade baits he will tell you "over use of flavours" despite the fact of being told it's no good. If you tell people to feed a small amount they will fill the water in. In the belief more is better.
I moved into a swim a little while ago and spoke to the vacating angler. He proudly told me he had put 4kg of high oil pellets in "to get them going".
Unfortunately it only takes a few misuided anglers to ruin a stretch of river with HP boilies or very oil pellets.
Sean, personally I am a believer in baits with a quallity food profile. I catch more fish on them, fact. However this could well be that I fish them with more confidence.

Fred Bonney · Sep 24, 2010

I didn't think you were Mark.
I was just commenting my personal style of barbel fishing, little & often.
So trickling in a few bits of HNV paste fits in with that method.

quickcedo · Sep 24, 2010

To be honest Fred this style of baiting is perfect for this type of bait.
My usual tactic esp on smaller rivers is 3 or 4 baits loose fed per swim and fish over it for 20 mins or so. If nothing then move, but I will return to the swim no sooner than an hour later and repeat. The pulling power of these baits is remarkable.
I have to say that for 99% of my barbel fishing it's paste baits that I prefer. It's only when I'm feeling lazy that I'll switch to boiled baits. Or indeed if it's pouring with rain (as I get older I like getting wet less and less).

Richard Beadle · Oct 3, 2010

Hnv theory is exactly, that an unproven theory backed up by little scientific evidence, that's not to say it isnt correct though. Hnv bait are considered a bit of an out moded concept, these days bait barrons speak of balanced food baits etc, all jolly good for the fish and the bait barons, I'm not so sure it's as good for the anglers bank balance though. Personally I don't think these convoluted carp mixes are required for barbel fishing on most rivers and a simple improvement on the standard pellet mix used in paste form keeps the costs down by a considerable margin and is no less effective. So yes the ccmoore paste will most definately catch fish, you must have had it for a couple of years I haven't seen it in there catalogue for a while.

quickcedo · Oct 3, 2010

Richard, firstly it's nice to see some fresh ideas so, hello
I would say that my catch results would suggest that a good food value (true hnv) which have a protein level of about 40% and have a good balance of easily digestable food stuffs have over the years proved (to me) that these baits whilst not being absolutely necessary to catch fish, have caught me more than standard baits.
There is also the theory that pellets designed for marine fish are having an adverse long term effect on freshwater fish health. The theory is that these are a bit like you or me solely eating junk food. This MAY also affect the reproductive cycle (not proved).

Richard Beadle · Oct 4, 2010

Hello mate, yes the high oil content within some marine and salmonid pellets has been thought to cause problems within coarse fish, namely liver problems I've put a link below which you may have already read. I'm sure your results and others with food source baits are excellent, I don't doubt that for one minute but I do doubt the claims of many within the industry that fish will actively seek out these baits because it is a healthy option, I'm yet to find anything that could support this claim, but like I say that's not to say it isn't happening, if it is occurring then my guess would be that there is more to it than just bait alone but that's a whole different subject.

Most commercial coarse fish pellets have a protein content of about 30-33% (some have 40%) derived from fish and vegetable sources, with a low oil content. I believe it is within every angler capabilities, with some small improvements like enzyme treated ingredients and various soluble natural attractors, to make a bait every bit as good if not better than a lot of the available commercial boilie mixes for a fraction of the cost per kg and get a great deal of satisfaction out of it to boot.

Rich

Trout Pellets

quickcedo · Oct 4, 2010

You are of course absolutelly correct on both parts. The reason I use these baits is because I've enjoyed the developement of my bait, I know it's good for the fish and above all else I have confidence in it.
The reason most anglers don't make there own bait are manyfold however convenience has to be the biggest factor. Most are happy to pay for that convenience.
Quite frankly the small amount that I use as feed probably doesn't utilise the food content to it's fullest but I'm happy with what I'm doing so I guess that's the key. For what it's worth the satisfaction of making my own bait/lure/fly whatever, then catching consistantly on it cannot be measured, but that's just me.
Mark.

HNV baits

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