A poll of sorts

It is alleged that a well-known angler (can?t say who, wasn?t there) has gone on record in public that otter should be shot if causing problems to fisheries.

My own view is they shouldn?t, they are part and parcel of the UK wildlife scene and would have naturally risen in numbers over time to levels they once were as the water environment and habitat became conducive to support them. I?m also of the opinion that captive releases have just brought that eventuality forward by a period of years.

What do you say?

For informed responses you might want to see these measures that can be taken to protect fisheries at risk.

http://www.saauk.org/

Tricky one Phil.

Unfortunately the reintroduction of the otter has conicided with the demise of the eel, one of thier staple food sources.

To this extent I am not sure that I agree with your view that numbers would have risen naturally as the water environment & habitat improved to a level to support them.

What sort of environmental study is done prior to release to see whether or not the habitat is a suitable one?

I don't think they should be shot either Phil.
Captured releases will have caused the problem to become more widespread sooner that it would have been.
Is this a problem caused by mans interfearence with nature?
What weight of fish does an otter need to survive? and how many otters per mile of river are there usually?
Although otters have been seen in the Ribble, I thought they were an animal that lived mainly in the south of England. And Scotland, or are they two different types?

No the otter should not be shot and I feel so strongly that if angling was to promote a cull on the otter then I would have to seriously consider my future as an angler.

Again it is a situation where man has tried to play god with nature and the end result isnt the one he envisaged for himself, otters do not eat tofu, cheese and pickle sandwiches or cream buns....they eat fish.

To blame the demise of the eel on a couple of hundred otters when european and domestic netsmen have been pillaging our waters for years compacted with other issuses such as diffuse pollution problems, problems we do not yet understand the full implications of plus the gross pollution of our seas coupled with global warming issues that have altered the currents of our oceans, to me laying the blame on the otter for problems we have created ourselves is absolutley abhorent.

yes otters are a problem for some waters but we have to work with them, to do otherwise is simply

Passing the buck big time!

Having spent a day with Dorset Otter Group last summer and put 2 articles on this site at that time, I think we should be clear that otters are no longer being reintroduced as was the case some years ago. Rehabilitated juvenile otters are released back into the catchment from where they came by the RSPCA.

Otters have large territories so it is not how many otters per mile but how many miles per otter, as much as 30 miles for a dominant dog otter. They also are reducing the mink population by killing them. Food supply is a limiting factor on otter populations.

I've been lucky enough to see two otters this winter.

The best way forward with otters is to accept them whilst joining the SAA in continuing to press for funding to get protection for vulnerable lakes. Culling is not an option for one of the most protected mammals in the UK.

no they shouldn't.

Definately not.

If they are keeping mink numbers down, then that on its own is worth more than losing a few fish, we would probably probably lose less. Otters only kill for food...unlike the indiscriminate mink.

I would dread to imagine what the anti's would make of it,if otters were culled for the sake of fish.

Besides that it would be great to see
otters in their natural enviroment.

An Otter, when it takes residence at a water, will do more damage than a Cormorant.

I guess we should leave Cormorants to it as well then?

I personally am undecided on both counts.

One is fetching to people, one is not. Is that reason enough for one to be culled, and one not?

Otters are a natural predator on fish as are pike, perch, herons, kingfishers, grebe etc. and are indiginous even if they have been released into areas where they wouldn't otherwise have existed before.

You still shouldn't kill them. They have obviously found a niche. You can't wind back the clock, just protect what you have to the best of your ability.

Cormorants are not indiginous to inland waters where they should be shot.

Ditto....

Surely otters are a natural link in the chain on inland waters.

Cormorants are not!

maybe we should re-introduce wild boar, bears and big cats......they were also once part of our heritage. I don't think so

Ok lets shoot 'em all!!

I think not, saw one last week ont Ribble with Phil.

Wild boar are already "in the wild" as are several sp of wild cat.

There is also a plan to reintroduce wolves into scotland as well as beaver I believe.

Bears.........I think not.

It seems that some people still haven't learned that nature isn't there for our convenience and pleasure. The otter was catching fish in our rivers and lakes long before humans set foot here and to think that somehow we should now take precedence is nothing short of arrogance. Most anglers fish for pleasure, otters fish to live.

no they shouldnt

Nigel
When otter groups were at their peak of reintroductions (about 8 years ago) there was no thought or ecological assessment done to see whether the habitat, which they were to be released into would support them.
This perhaps was naive by these groups to think; large area of open landscape with what appeared to be plentiful waterways equalled otter survival.

It is thanks principally to Chris Burt and the SAA that the Otter Trust and otter groups no longer release captive bred otters into the wild. I also know that this was one of the main arguments that Chris used to persuade them to stop such releases.

IN SHORT, CAPTIVE BRED OTTERS ARE NO LONGER RELEASED.

Eels whilst being the favoured food of otter, and sadly are in decline, have characteristic reasons as to why they are. Eels unlike other fish when disturbed flee to the nearest refuge (rock, tree, etc) rather than take flight and swim off at a rate of knots and keep going until they?re out of danger. This makes them easier prey to catch due to the dexterity of the otter?s paws, claws and sharp teeth, therefore making them a favoured food.
Innately and subconscious all predators make a judgement call about energy balance. How much energy will I need to catch my prey if it moves fast, as opposed to catching something slower but less plentiful in fish biomass terms.

Baz Mark is quite right to turn what you said upside down. All top line predators need huge territories and otters are no different. In one of Nikko Tinbergen?s books he devotes a chapter to discussing why big scary animals are rare. Otters are in European aquatic terms the biggest scary animal of all.

Lets be clear here otters because of their natural rarity (big scary animal syndrome) will never be plentiful and all talk of equating them to cormorants is just plain wrong.
Over population of big scary animals leads very quickly to a crash in the population due to not enough food supply.

Baz in the whole of the Ribble catchment area there are no more than 6 animals, which, on average eat about the same amount of fish per day as one cormorant 1.25 kilos of fish. God I wish there were only 6 of the black death on that river.

Just as a side issue whales are the biggest animals on the planet (debatable whether they?re scary), and there are many species of them, far more that there are big cats, and if what I?ve wrote above is true, why?

Just one further point, both me and Ian did see an otter on the Ribble on the Sunday before the season closed. Ian got a better view of it than I did (lucky bastard! It came out of the water and sat on a log only a few yards from where he was fishing), and from the description he gave me it was a dog otter. When it past me it was steaming down the middle of the river. Even though it was at least 20 yards away from me it appeared to be a good 2 ? - 3 ft. long.

In 50+ years of observing wildlife, it?s the first time I?ve ever seen an otter in the flesh. Do I begrudge him a couple of pound of fish per day? Do I hell!

That image in my minds eye is worth more than gold to me and will live with me until I die, or see the next animal, hopefully as close up as golden bollox Ian did.

We watched a pair of otters on the Dove about 4 to 5 years ago. We stopped fishing just to watch them. They had more right to be there than us.

Cormorants don't have any right at all to be on freshwaters (whether it's their fault or not), and we are right to try to control them.

The only time we should do something about otters on freshwaters is if they ever get out of control and reach numbers beyond what nature intended. But I think nature would take care of that anyway.

I wasn't blaming the reintroduction of otters for the decline of the eel but making the point that captive releases in areas previously not populated by otters might not be such a good idea given the decline in eel numbers & the possible impact on silver fish numbers as a consequence.

From what Mark & Phil say these reintroductions are no longer taking place.