Fluorocarbon Leaders

A number of coarse anglers are having a few problems with fluorocarbon hooklengths in that they're breaking unexpectedly, most often at the knot, but occasionally between knots. Has any experienced game angler found the same thing, and if so, was it with a certain brand of line or all the fluorocarbon mono leaders they've tried? If the breakage was at the knot, which knot was being used, and which knot solved the problem?

Graham. I have had the same problem when fishing with flurocarbons. It is not just one particular brand. The knot that corrected this was the nail knot. But beware flurocarbons should be changed for each trip and I would not recommend them for Atlantic Salmon.

David. I do know that one certain, cheaper brand of fluorocarbon has caused more problems than any other. Not just at the knot but between knots too. Curiously, perhaps, the usual grinner and palomar knots (which are best for braid and conventional mono) have not been the answer for fluoros when the knot has been the problem. The figure eight loop knot has been best in my own experience. I don't know the nail knot, could you describe it please?

well,
i visited rutland water for the first time last year for the hardy final.....i was impressed by the small water no-end.the fish were unreal....before we ventured out we went to the tackle shop to collect our tickets..all i could see on the line stand was ,u guessed it ruddy fluorocarbon,,which i had never fished at home because it usually broke at the knots...but as i had no line with me i had to attach my flies to something..so i picked 2 spools of 6 lb fulling mill..as i was paying for them,one of the lads behind the counter started laughing.".u are the boys from ireland"..( obvious enough as we were all wearing guinness caps and shirts ).."well i wouldn't use that light a line "he said,,he put back my 6lb line and came back with 8lb..a bit heavy i thought..for the next five days i used one cast each day..no problem with knots and the tangles dropped out evry time.one of the lads on my team hooked a 4lb plus silver bar on the hang and it took off ,,all the line was under his feet and he gave all the boats around us a version of the riverdance..but before the fish went 20 feet he stood on the line..i hear u say smash,crack..not on your nelly he turned that fish upside down with the fish hurtling away from us..my god..one recommendation..if u are pulling flies use fulling mill line..u will not break and if u do it will have to be a monster,,these days at home i use fulling mill 4lb on our small stocked waters and have had fish to 16.5lbs..i am off to rutland again this september for the hardy final again and there are no prizes to what i will be using...

regards,
denis..

Graham,
Sorry I have not got back to you but I have had a system crash and been out of action for the last week. I will have the information on the nail knot for you when I get my scanner up and running. This is an American knot and could well be known over here by a different name. Denis when I was in Canada we very often built our own tippets starting with a heavy 20lb mono and gradually reducing to 8lb for atlantic salmon. For trout we would start at 10lb and reduce to 4lb. So if they still laugh at your way of doing things in Rutland then just ask them can you make your own tippet? They probably look at you in amazement. Then you can say 'when you can, come back and see me, and I will call you a fly fisherman. Mono was around long before flurocarbons and still work better. I still make my own, after trying fluro,s and having the same problems.

David

Thanks David - and Denis, you know what they say about he who laughs last...... Keep doing your own thing mate. Confidence is everything, and you only get that by using the tackle you know works for you, whether that is line or anything else.

The question I have to ask, is why are you going for such thin line, when the refractive index of fluorocarbon is as near as almost unmeasurable to water, that you would be unable to see it no matter how thick the diameter was. I tried a fluoroleader of 5Kg b.s. and caught as many trout as on the 6lb Diawa "super Shinobi" I have been using for the last couple of years, and that is as thin as everyone elses 4lb b.s.
I use 30lb fluoro for snook in Florida, and they are as wary as any trout i've come across. Last trip three of us had over 100 fish in 2 days, to 36"" long, all on circle hooks (Daiichi bleeding bait circle size 2/0), and all safely released.
Try 10lb b.s. for trout - if you don't you'll never know.
Philthefish.

As it happens I have just done some testing right now, today on fluoro lines.

The 12 lb Krystonite (fluorocarbon coated) with two figure of eight loops -not the best knots, broke consistantly at 11 1/2 lbs. Not bad at all. 6lb Fluorocabron trout leader from Drennan broke at 3 1/2 lbs. Rubbish. 6 lbs Stren broke at 6 1/2 lbs. very good. 10 lbs Stren broke at 11 lbs. excellent.

All with ordinary figure of eight loops.

The best knot for tying on hooks with fluoro is an ordinary half blood knot without the tuck. For making up droppers, a plain three turn water knot on 6 lb Stren breaks at exactly 6 lbs.

The best fluorocarbon I have tested up to now is Stren.

You can't buy it in England though.

USD 8-50 for 200 yards, has to be the cheapest and best in the world.

These are Bass Pro Shop prices for 25 yard spools, and it is the best...

Price Item
Number Description Size
$7.49 38-417-581-10 10 LB .011"
$7.99 38-417-581-12 12 LB .013"
$7.99 38-417-581-15 15 LB .015"
$7.99 38-417-581-20 20 LB .017"
$8.99 38-417-581-25 25 LB .019"
$9.99 38-417-581-30 30 LB .022"
$11.99 38-417-581-40 40 LB .025"
$14.99 38-417-581-50 50 LB .029"
$17.99 38-417-581-60 60 LB .030"

Find Bass pro Shops on Google or similar.
No idea on carr., friend sends to me.
Philtherod

The NAIL KNOT is also known as the ALBRIGHT KNOT

NAIL/ALBRIGHT KNOT

By the way Stren is also sold in the USA under the name "Seaguar Carbon Pro"

I have to agree with Denis about Fulling Mill, I never use anything else when using fluorocarbon.
Drennan Double strength any other time but I go by diametre not line strength.

Colin

I agree about Fulling Mill. I've been using it since it came out and I've not had a single break with trout up to ten pounds.

I've tried others (mainly free offers) and had problems.

I nail knot an 8lb length to the fly line and add to it depending on where I'm fishing. I always thoroughly wet, i.e spit, the leader lengths before drawing the knot tight.

I use it for lures, nymphs and dry fly fishing and I'm 100% satisfied with it.

the nail knots a bit irrelevant for a coarse angler, but do any of you have problems with your droppers parting above the hook.
i've been using bayer ultima virage trout leader for hooklengths for years in 5 lb and had coarse fish to 15 lb on it but i've had problems with other makes parting a couple of inches above the hook

I have been browsing previous threads after experiencing knot problems with fluorocarbon - hence the resurrection of this thread (it could have been any one of several).

I started occasionally using Sufix Invisiline as leader material after Graham kindly let me have a small spool some time ago. Late last year I ran out and went to get some more; the shop didn't have Invisiline but the guy assured me that Berkley Vanish was "just as good" and cheaper and so I bought a spool to try out. I got it in 7.9lb and used it successfully at the back end for Barbel and Chub although I have to say that I didn't catch any especially large fish during that time.

On friday last I was floater fishing for carp, to low doubles, using 8lb Maxima straight through but finding bites hard to come by. I remembered my spool of Vanish was tucked away in my rucksack and so I tied on a leader with a four-turn water knot. I had an immediate take, where before the fish had been reluctant, but after a brief fight all went slack and I discovered that the leader had snapped at the water knot.

I re-tied, very carefully, and in a short time had exactly the same thing happen. Not wanting to lose the advantage the fluorocarbon seemed to be giving me in getting offers I decided to drop the water knot and use overhand loop knots on both main line and leader. Result: the fluoro leader parted at the loop knot.

Back to sraight through mono and I eventually landed three nice carp with no further losses but the offers were definitely fewer.

My previous use of fluro has been with a swivel a the connecting point and I always use a grinner knot - which appears to be the right thing to do but has anyone come up with an effective line to line knot?

Or is Berkley Vanish just an anagram of carp?

Berkley Vanish is crap !!

Try using a 3 turn water knot, I have found that by using 3 turns insted of 4 the knot has much more strength with certain brands of fluro and mono. I use Seaguar for all my salmon fishing now, if the knots are tied right (nice and neat) then its almost impossible to break even under shock load. You cant beat maxima for being easy to use and being forgiving but I have swithched to Seaguar and wont be going back.

I'm experimenting with fluorocarbon and I had a knot go on me on a Barbel yesterday. It was under extreme pressure, but I would have expected mono or braid to stand up to it. I've had a play with knots since and I have found that the recommended Palomar knot is difficult to tighten perfectly on the fluoro I'm using.

I'm going to try the 'Orvis' knot as published on here a few months ago. Will also try the untucked half blood knot as recommended by Ron. I've continued to use this for fluoro when trout fishing and its been fine. BUT I'm not putting a trout leader knot under the same stress as a Barbel hook knot.

I agree about the use of fewer turns on the water knot and I've succesfully used as few as 2 turns when attaching low diameter hook lengths for Chub fishing.

One thing that's become clear since I started this thread six years ago is that there is a pronounced difference in quality between many brands of fluoro.

Sufix Invisiline is amongst the best and I've never used worse than Berkeley Vanish.

The best advice is to find a fluoro you know and trust and then stick with it.

And it does seem that the old half blood knot that mainly got kicked into touch by the grinner and the palomar some years ago is one of the best with fluoro.

Riverge is pretty good too