Angler Kills Cormorants

i can relate with him but i think that they have more of a right to be there as it is their environment but because they are classified as vermin then it has to many people on solution to kill them which is wrong, however I can understand why they have killed these birds as they do cause a lot of damage to our waters across britian but i think we also need to take responsability for our actions as it will be another issue that PETA can complain about!

Cormorants are sea birds - are freshwater lakes/rivers their enviroment? its only because sea fish stocks have been nearly wiped out that they have come inland and found easy prey.

First case of an angler being prosecuted for killing cormorants that were pillaging his local water.

Pillaging interesting way of putting feeding quite happily until some idiot blew them away for no reason other than seeing red with a shot gun and got off soooo lightly with a ?500 fine also to see that he must be a hero as he saved a lake from "pillaging".

'Pillaging' and 'feeding quite happily' are not really synonymous. Just as 'thieving' and 'helping yourself quite happily' are not quite the same.

Regardless of the cormorant's 'right' or not to be there (which is debateable) the owners and members of the water would indeed think that 'pillaging' is a very fitting word when they see their expensive and much loved stock being eaten.

Which is not a comment on the method used to protect the stock but a comment on the motive for doing so.

How is it debatable that cormorants have a right to be there ? Cormorants are indigenous to the UK. They have always been visiting in land lakes.

I am a member of Letchworth AC that run Henlow Lakes, known as the Grange locally, and it is a popular match and carp venue still. Not bad for tench either ;-)

To be honest I am always amazed at the first reaction of grab a gun and shoot as a resolution. Bad news folks it isn't until the underlying sea fish stock problems are sorted out.

At a time when angling is under pressure from the likes of PETA wouldn't it be more positive working with the RSPB or do we really have a short term view that cormorants have to be shot with the resulting bad publicity ? Let?s give them another rod to whip us with eh ? I would rather have one of the largest voluntary organisations with rather than against angling. The RSPB are broadly pro angling recognising the benefits angling brings to the enviroment however how long would it take for that to change if anglers generate this type of publicity and continue to call for shooting in the angling press ?

I?d love see us in a position of strength morally, publicly and influencing in the centre of the enviromental movement as make no mistake we have the numbers to make a positive difference but it looks as if we headed for a confrontation over an issue that is unproven to the public and science.

Really I worry about the future of angling. I saw the damage done to angling in Germany in the 70?s by not being involved with the enviromental movement therefore not having influence to be able to stop repressive laws passed. I was a kid at the time and remember suddenly having a no return policy was introduced. What we wouldn?t do that here ? How many fox hunters said that ?

I know that cormorants are indigenous to the UK and I know they have always visited inland lakes.

But never to the extent that they are now.

Yes, the root of the problem lies in depleted sea fish stocks. But that doesn't make a fishery owner (and the anglers who fish it) feel any better when he sees cormorants scoffing his stock.

And yes, the answer, long term, is to sort out the sea fish stocks so that cormorants have no reason to pillage inland lakes to the extent that they are now.

My comments are not so much anti-cormorant, as pro-fish. I am a wildlife lover of all types and species, but don't like it when one species is causing damage to the ecology of another, particularly where the victims have no chance. I have seen the devastation caused on the Ribble by these birds, where we now have very few young fish coming through to replace the big fish we are at present catching prior to the foot and mouth epidemic.

And my comments in no way are meant to be taken that I am in favour of killing cormorants.

My motive is to protect fish.

Different studies give conflicting results and there are conflicting opinions about
the damage cormorants cause to fisheries.

The destructive over-fishing of the sea by commercial boats is certainly part of the
problem but what about the extraction of gravel on a major scale creating a new
source of food for wintering birds.

Should we blame the cormorant for less young fish coming through as a decline may
an indicator of a more serious environmental problem.

The answer is certainly not to let idiots blow them away but to fight for a program
that allows private landowners and fishery owners to receive assistance in controlling
numbers

It will be interesting to see if there is a Mako shark cull or hunt after the one caught of cornwall a few days ago. Now if one of these fish attacked an person there would be bedlam a massive hunt, with all sharks and simila caught being killed. But they are not a danger to the human population. Now the only reason that the Mako and the Great White sharks were seen or captured of cornwall is depleted fish stocks the same reason why comorants are now visiting inland waters more and more.

However comorants are nice and fluffy and the public love fluffy things even they are ecologicaly damaging. Just look at the pigeon population and the decline of our song birds, Mink and the decline of ground nesting birds this is the same with the cormorant problem. The problem is HOW do you prove cormorants destroy the fish populations and why is that a problem.

Steve
Makos are frequently found in the irish sea off the south and west coast of ireland
and into Scottish waters probably following warm currents.
Your statement that the cause is depleted fish stocks is totally wrong.
Please help me on the following(baffled)
What has any of this to do with cormorants.?
What point are you trying to make about songbirds.?
Mink and the decline of ground nesting birds being the same as the the cormorant
problem.( you have lost me)

The point i was making is it;s all a question of balance.

Regards Steve

I have a friend who lives up North. He is an angler and also a member of the RSPB. He and a lot of his fellow RSPB members are actually in favour of a controlled cull of cormorants. The trouble is our government is not listening even handedly - as usual. They hear one side and then cock a deaf one to the other. The whole cormorant situation desperately needs to be invetigated countrywide not just in a few selected areas. There are witnesses who will vouch to the fact that cormorants have been seen feeding on small fry and within weeks leaving a water practically devoid of a whole generation of fish. This is not a good thing for us anglers or for the ecology of the waterway. It also hampers efforts to introduce a species that I believe has far more right to be here than itinerant cormorants; native otters.

I have a friend who lives up North. He is an angler and also a member of the RSPB. He and a lot of his fellow RSPB members are actually in favour of a controlled cull of cormorants. The trouble is our government is not listening even handedly - as usual. They hear one side and then cock a deaf one to the other. The whole cormorant situation desperately needs to be invetigated countrywide not just in a few selected areas. There are witnesses who will vouch to the fact that cormorants have been seen feeding on small fry and within weeks leaving a water practically devoid of a whole generation of fish. This is not a good thing for us anglers or for the ecology of the waterway. It also hampers efforts to introduce a species that I believe has far more right to be here than itinerant cormorants; native otters.

The government licence 600 cormerents to be killed each each year with 200 men with licences allowed to cull the bird and I can understand the RSPB members being in favour because of other birds like kingfishers,as their population has dropped over the past 5-6 years and this is potentionally a threat to the kingfisher, but i think that anglers need to remember that they are not the ones with the licence to kill them therefore people are prosicuted for it. But are we to blame? I think that humans are playing an important part in this as the cormorant has only moved inland because of the lack of fish like cod in the sea and we are to blame for that?

However cormorants are a danger to our water ways and i agree with Kevan for that, but what can we do? Can we bid for a larger amount of cormorant to be culled by the government!!! But will they listen.

Itinerant cormorants (Snigger)

Otters have no more right to be here than any other species of wildlife.
Listen to yourself--.Lets shoot them i have a witness
Otters are nicer, It's not a good thing for us anglers,

A question of balance


Steve

All in all, there is no simple solution. One of our lakes (QEII Northumberland, 40 acres) had 35 cormorants on for six months and wiped out approx 60,00 lbs of fish (not our estimate but study groups). We tried everything suggested by the E.A., Maff and Universities, for 5 years, to rid us of this predator but to no avail. They soon get wise to every tactic and come back if fish are present. We were eventually granted a licence to cull for our efforts only to be thwarted by the local council at the last minute (literally!). It seems that the only way to change things legally is to re-think the stocking policies on hard-hit waters and possibly stock with bigger, faster growing species like we have with Carp (which were never present in the lake) or to make it difficult by not cutting back on the weed. Yes there are still fry every year and the predators scoop these up with vigor but anglers on the bank who pay for the fish realise what we are trying to do and back us all the way. We did not stock the water for 5 years and have learned a hard lesson but now we feel we have the lake on track for cracking venue. Maybe it's time to live with these birds and outwit them in other ways. Only time will tell.

Just an opinion from someone who has been there for a long time.

Cheers
Bren

Steve what i meant was that the cormorants and fish stock depletion is just another example of our messed up laws regarding species that finds a niche and destroy the natural ecosystem leaving it worse than it was before. As for the other areas Mink move into the area they kill rabbits, ground nesting and tree nestings birds just like if a number of cormorants move onto a lake, result being devoid of fish. Pigeons take over the nesting places of our songbirds leading to a decline. About the sharks there is a theory for the increased shark attacks around the world that we are depleting natural fish stocks and so the sharks are coming to costal areas to feed (just like the cormorants coming inland more).

Hope that cleared my last post up........

Recently on a lake and saw a mink take out 4 young swans and 6 carp in 3 days. Frighteningly efficient.

They are menacing and efficient Andy. Last year on the Dove I saw two fully grown mink with 11 younger ones in pursuit. I witnessed them literally stalking some chub and barbel in a fast shallow and less than a minute later they had a barbel of about 2lb or so on the bank, quickly followed by a good chub of 3lb +. Granted, they didnt leave much, but there are times that I have come across several fish with just the head gnawed off, in this instance it was four or five bream from the Sow in Stafford, and these were 4lb fish.
Earlier this year while on the Trent at Gt HaywoodI had been watching a very busy mink working the banks as they do, only to see it disappear briefly and re-appear after s short commotion 50 feet up A TREE with a wood pigeon clamped in its mouth. An extremely adaptable hunter easily capable of taking mamals many times bigger than itself. It reproduces large litters and more worryingly, with the exception of otters (rare), traps and pack hounds probably has no real predator above it in the food chain in this country.

I disposed of several mink that were causing a mojor problem down the River Leam some time ago. All you need is a big landing net and some bread

Did you cook 'em up there or take them home Ron..?

How is the fur lined Holdall strap ?