Death Rigs

GrahamM · Apr 20, 2005

Some excellent points from Jeff, but the most telling one for me is the one about some anglers being gullible.

You can absolutely guarantee that as soon as a certain rig hits the site someone will come on to say it's a death rig. Sometimes I think they troll the net looking for rig submissions so they can pounce.

Most times they're making their observations because 'it's the thing to do' concerning that particular rig, without having one original thought about it.

Jeff goes a long way to proving in this article that the loop rig CAN be safe if it's tied correctly. Or at least as safe as any other rig.

It's been said before, and it'll take saying again, the so-called safety rig commonly used in carp fishing is only safe for carp and equally big fish. Loads of big roach, bream, chub and some smaller tench that will take a fair sized boilie must have been tethered with this rig over the years. They're just not strong enough to pull the swivel out of the clip, even a modified one that will stand the force needed to retrieve it.

And before anyone jumps onto the anti carp bandwagon that's NOT a knock at carp anglers. Remember, they've done more towards fish care than any other branch of the sport.

Gary Knowles 2 · Apr 20, 2005

"Sometimes I think they troll the net looking for rig submissions so they can pounce" - couldn't agree more

"the so-called safety rig commonly used in carp fishing is only safe for carp" - agreed, this should be marketed as a 'carp safety clip' not a 'safety clip'

"they've done more towards fish care than any other branch of the sport" - true, they have done a lot for carp welfare. I'm not convinced they have done the 'nuisance fish' much good though...

Peter Jacobs · Apr 20, 2005

I would totally agree with Jeff's argument with respect to the loop rig.

I have used this rig since the early 90's and can honestly say that I've never had any problems with it, providing you keep to 'sensible' line diameters.

I think I am right in saying that John Wilson used this rig in one of his older videos on Tench Fishing on an estate lake?

sash · Apr 20, 2005

Fully agree with most of what is written and even though Jeff rightly points out that the loop rig should not be used on snaggy venues it is exactly that sort of place that I regularly see it used e.g. the Trent which can and does lead to a lot of snagged feeders and potentially tethered fish.

""they've done more towards fish care than any other branch of the sport" - true, they have done a lot for carp welfare. I'm not convinced they have done the 'nuisance fish' much good though..."" - must agree with Gary on this too even though there are idiots in every branch of the sport.

Mark Wintle · Apr 20, 2005

I found the loop rig highly effective on the Hants Avon for chub but gave up using it because when I hooked barbel the feeder tended to get caught in the dense weed causing the hook link to break. I working out a running feeder version that worked as well without the snag ups. I never had the main line break though (min 8lbs).

Graham Whatmore · Apr 20, 2005

If you use a rotten link between the swivel and the feeder it eliminates the problem of snagging up and as you say Mark if your mainline is of a much heavier breaking strain than the hooklength its very unlikely to break.

Baz · Apr 20, 2005

But where are the experts on these matters??

Bill Maitland · Apr 20, 2005

Who is supposed to be the experts Baz ???

Not sure what your implying.

Bill Maitland · Apr 20, 2005

I believe safty clips are ok, It all comes down to the size of the fish.

If a smaller fish got snagged to a rig intended for big Chub or Barbel it would suffer the same fate as a Bream or tench snagged to a carp rig.

Baz · Apr 20, 2005

The experts are the same ones that Woody wrote about in the main article Bill. Or the same ones that Graham said jump on the bandwagon because it is the thing to do. I don't know if you read any of those articles on death rigs, but they are all still there.

jason fisher · Apr 20, 2005

he's obsessed with trying to make out the loop rig is safe and intrinsically it's not, it's only safe if it is constructed correctly with a hook length strength below the point where EVERY fish in the water can snap it, othwerwise if it is broken off above the feeder it has the potential to tether a fish and kill them.

Bill Maitland · Apr 20, 2005

Don't know who your refering to Jason, if its me then I have never used the loop rig.
I do, and will use a paternoster rig for my chubbing or perching and have explained that rig to you a long time ago on another thread, which I'm not going to go in to again.

Bill Maitland · Apr 20, 2005

Apologies Baz, I thought you were having a sly dig at carp anglers.

I agree with all that Jeff says, my point was just in relation to fish size and that most rigs if broken off are a potential hazzard to a fish of some sort.

I mainly fish for Chub and Perch in autumn/winter and Tench and Carp in spring/summer so tactics are very different for those species.

Wolfman Woody · Apr 20, 2005

"The experts are the same ones that Woody wrote about in the main article Bill. Or the same ones that Graham said jump on the bandwagon because it is the thing to do."

Sorry - who mentioned "experts"? I didn't write the word and neither did Graham in his posting.

Not sure who or what Jason is getting at either. I wish you'd make it clear, but what you say is exactly what I have said. You've just used a few different words.

Then I ask, why would it break off above the feeder unless the angler has not kept his line fresh or has not checked the free running of the line before casting or he is fishing in a snaggy swim. Having done all of that you'd have to be the biggest dork in angling christendom to break the main line.

Baz · Apr 20, 2005

Here we go.
Woody, the choice of the word 'experts' was mine and nobody elses.
You refered to them as gullible anglers. As was stated, somebody mentions a rig, and they get jumped on by the (my wording) experts.

Andy "the Dog" Nellist · Apr 20, 2005

There is an inherant risk to fish posed by fishing but the benefits to the fish population of angling massively outweigh these risks.

For example anglers fight against pollution, abstraction, straightening of rivers, destruction of bankside cover, land fills etc. and spend lots of time and money maintaining fisheries so that they provide the perfect conditions for fish.

In accepting that there are risks be it that they are small we should obviously take reasonable steps to minimise those risks. This is where the PC crowd loose the plot with stupid arguments such as suggesting that a fixed rig incorporating a size 20 on a 2lb hooklink is a tether rig.

What is needed is the application of common sense and a strat point is to test what really happens with rigs rtaher than just speculating.

A good exampleof this is safety clips which are assumed to be safe. Have you ever actually seen a report of someone testing various makes of safety clip to see at what pressure they release ?

One of my friends caught a 30lb + carp towing a 3oz lead on a safety clip. The rig incorporated a 2" hooklink and this had prevented the safety clip from releasing. This had left the carp towing a long piece of strong line and at risk of tethering. Ironically the fish was landed on fixed powergum helicopter rig with 3lb hooklink and size 20 hook.

Tethering fish is thankfully very rare and with the application of a little common sense the risk can be minimised.

The way to do that is to provide people with accurate information so that they understand what they are doing.

Jeff has made a good start. well done mate.

jason fisher · Apr 20, 2005

the loop rig is a death rig for every fish which is lighter than the strength of the hooklength being used.
you cannot guarantee that there is no possibility of the rig parting above the fixing point.
so you can minimise the chances of it killing a fish but it is still designed to do that if lost.

Andy "the Dog" Nellist · Apr 20, 2005

Jason, I'm sorry mate but that is utter and total nonsense.

jason fisher · Apr 20, 2005

how can it be nonsense andy, if a fish is not capable of breaking the line on a rig which has a lead fixed to it it will die do you disagree with this point.

Andy "the Dog" Nellist · Apr 20, 2005

You seem to have forgotten:

1. Newton's second law F = ma

2. The fish is attached by a hook

2.1 Hookhold can be affected by whether the hook is barbed, micro barbed, or barbless.
2.2 The hook may be small, made of thin, soft or brittle wire and may break or bend.
2.3 The hookhold may fail when pressure is no longer applied or it may work free.

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