rubber/fake baits

i`ve been having some success reccently using rubber grains of corn being fished on a hair rig,popped up over pva bags of pellets.so far ive had no joy with rubber pellets,also fished popped up etc....
do any of you gents use any of the above or indeed any fake/rubber type baits,wether it be maggotts,tiger nuts or even rubber bread flake.
i`d be especially intrested if any one has tried them on rivers with any success.

Rubber casters have accouted for Roach,Race,Chub & Barbel both on the float & lead.

Careful to counterbalance when legering as they float.

In the past three years I've had a few catches of over 20 chub and several barbel on fake casters fished under a stickfloat.

The secret, if that's the word, is to get the fish feeding well on the real thing before using the fake baits.

I too have done well on the rubber casters, plus the corn, maggots and last week, the new glow in the dark maggots!

I've also struggled with the pellets though. I keep meaning to use the fake Hemp for Roach but after a couple of biteless casts I resort to other baits.

One tip with the maggots is to make sure they sit well away from the hookpoint and that they are hooked thinly, otherwise you'll bump and lose fish due to lack of pentration.

I've caught on the fake caster but I havn't tried the corn although I've had some for ages. I soak mine in a flavour because I'm always worried they will smell the plastic.

Matt, I'm convinced the hemp will work but its a case of getting them feeding on it first. In my canal match days we used to use a small black bead with a piece of white pole elastic tied throught it and hook it through the elastic but you had to get them biting on the hemp first so I guess it would be the same with the rubber ones.

I've wondered if the fake casters work well due to the fish expecting them to feel hard in the first instance and they get hooked before they realise they can't crush them like the real thing.

Graham, I think it's a bouyancy thing, although your theory makes sense too.

They're much less bouyant than the maggots. The new glow in the dark ones won't even lift a size 16 Super Specialist off the deck though.

Why are the maggots so large? I wish they make some normal and Pinkie size bouyant maggots too.

i`ve had tench to 8lbs on the rubber casters and tench up to 6lbs plus on rubber corn,each time fished over matching natural baits feeder style.

During the last river season I have used and caught on; fake maggot, caster, hemp and corn. I tried the bread once and discarded it after about an hour.

The best session though was with the fake hemp, but feeding natural hemp constantly, for a good net of river roach on the Avon. However, when switching back to natural hemp on the hook I didn't notice any drop in the number of bites. That sadi, there was a time advantage in not having to re-bait virtually every cast.

I am not totally convinced that these fake baits are all that fish-friendly, and I do have concerns about how a fish might get rid of an (accidentally) swallowed fake piece of bait.

My main concern about these fake baits though is; why we want or need them in the first place?

Are we loosing the necessary skills to properly keep and use maggots and caster?

Are we getting that idle that opening a can of corn at home and putting the contents into a plastic bag is beyond our span of attention?

Do we need 'instant' fishing where the pre-fishing trip to the tackle shop to buy fresh bait is now considered a waste of time?

Most of the contributors above say that they have used the fake baits over a bed of the real/natural bait, so is the only advantage that we don't have to keep changing out hook baits?

I do suppose that cost would come into the equation, although I wonder about the effectiveness of fake baits over real baits when they have been kept in a tackle box for a year or so.

I can see a slight advantage in using the rubber corn popped-up for tench or carp fishing, but you can achieve the same result with yellow rig foam combined with the real stuff.

From my point of view, the jury is still out on the topic of fake baits, and I am open to be convinced, however, I don't think I'll be using them much next season - for me it just doesn't "feel right"

Peter, in my case I use fake caster at those times when the fish are crushing the bait or pulling it off the hook. For me fake casters have several times turned a frustrating session of missed bites into a successful session of positive bites and a good catch. Changing the hook size and pattern and hooking the real casters every which way didn't work.

As to the question of fake baits being bad for fish, I wouldn't think there is a problem with the smaller baits being passed straight through and the size of some of the stones I remove from healthy trout suggests the bigger false baits could be safe too.

Rig foam must surely present the same (if any) problem, and that's been used for many years now with no evidence of ill effects on fish.

Peter,

The rubber grubs are ideal when you are getting pestered by minnows & small dace.You still have to feed the real thing as at about ?2.00 for 20 it would be a little pricey otherwise!

Your comments re artificial hemp is interesting.Did you ever use Mystic?

Graham, I can see where the use of those fake casters in that situation would have been an advantage, but did you try small redworms as an alternative on that ocassion?
As I said, I am open to be convinced, and the safety aspect is one area where I would concede, although I have doubts about large pieces of that fake bread.

Nigel,
Granted that when being pestered by the legions of tiny Avon dace and minnows then I can see an advantage to the fake baits.

I seem to remember Mystic being an early fake bloodworm that came in a tube, is that the stuff you mean?
If so, then I did use it once in Norway on a canal in practice, but really preferred to use proper joker and bloodworm.
As an aside, importing joker and bloodworm into Norway not only required a licence but was damn expensive I can tell you.

I didn't try small redworm no, they're not a bait I normally carry for a trotting session for chub and barbel. I don't usually have a problem with caster, but on those occasions when they're really 'having it', to steal a phrase from the fishing tabloids, and snatching at the bait, I find the fake casters excellent.

I have to agree that for that situation then the fake caster is a real asset.

On the subject of redworms I don't think I have had a session in the last 5 years when I've not had a tub of redworms in my bait bag as I really have faith in them as a change of bait on the Avon when things are getting tough.

My biggest problem these days is finding a bait bag (cooler type) that is big enough. The typical Sensas, Milo et al, designs are just wrong IMHO. They only take 4 by 3 pint boxes and then only if you stack them on top of each other which then covers the air holes on the bottom two boxes.
I recently bought an ESP bait bag which is slightly larger but still not what I'd call ideal.
Do you know of a really good sized cooler-type bait bag?

Peter,

Wasn't there also a mystic black which was a hemp imitator?

Dont worry about bait coolers.Get hold of a couple of yorkshire style cloth maggot bags & your bait will never sweat.

Unless you are fishing long sessions or the temperatures are very high I've never had a problem with baits going off. Do we put too high a premium on tip top baits anyway?

Nigel,

I've used the cloth bags for years in Scandinavia and Europe and they are really very useful.

With regard to keeping bait in tip top condition, as you know, it is a subject that I am really keen on and I don't think as anglers we generally have that as a top priority.

My view is that I want the best and freshest available quality of bait, after all it really matters not what rod, reel etc., we use it is the bait that attracts and induces the bite.

Hhmm, I feel a topic for an article coming on

I don't reacall a Mystic Hemp at all.
The ones I tried out were (I think) made by Enterprise, but I wouldn't swear to that. The artificial hemp was very good, a little larger than natural hemp and I fished it trotting using both hemp and tares as feed and ocassionally switching from the artifical hemp to a natural tare and caught really well.

I used to use Mystic - fantastic stuff. It used to come in all sorts of colours but I only bothered with red.

Peter,

I suspect its a confidence thing but I do wonder how fussy the fish are?

I know some of the great match teams of the past put great store in the fattest, freshest maggots & had them bred to order to ensure their quality.

I remember however reading a very funny article by the great Ron Lees about how he won a match with some old casters he had to scrape up from a ditch.

You mean the gozzers Nigel! The norm was to feed ordinary maggots and fish a gozzer on the hook. I well remember Ken Giles used to keep his hooker gozzers in a tobacco tin and always looked over his shoulder before opening it. Sour milk was the favourite because they were the softest, and were very big compared to the ordinary maggot.

Peter, I'm afraid the tendency is to fish manufactured baits these days to the point where the "old fashioned" maggot and worm etc are much neglected even though they are as good as they ever were.

Thanks for that Graham.

There is not a fish swimming that cant be had on maggot as witnessed by a lot of big carp coming out on it in the last few seasons.