'Fly' fishing for carp

mark williams 4 · Jun 22, 2005

I had a couple of hours with Chris Dawn down at Gerards near Peterborough where there are plenty of small carp which will come up to floaters quite merrily. We were trying to catch them on fly rods and lines, using various 'flies' as bait, over a load of cat biccies.
The water was boiling with them within minutes, and they proved impossible to spook, but guess what? They swam round our baits, poked them around, pretended to take them but Chris got the only fish - a scabby mirror about 3lb. There were doubles out there!
I tried various leaders including fluorocarbon, floating nylon and sinking, down to 4lb, but still something was the equivalent of a large neon sign saying 'Hook in this one' over our bait.
Any tips gratefully accepted. (Though I have to say my tip to anyone else would be to take a 1 1/2lb TC rod and suspender rig instead!)

Wolfman Woody · Jun 22, 2005

Did you try 'egg' flies? Little balls of fluff in various colours?

Alan Tyler · Jun 23, 2005

I'm posting this quite nervously, because I haven't fly-fished for years and am not a carper, but, with the "Health Warning" that this is a view from the armchair: The likeliest giveaway is drag - you've probably seen how a gap opens up between your bait and the nearest freebie - and the guy who came up with the best cure I've seen was an american called George Harvey (Hervey?).
What he did, for dry-fly fishing, was to build tapered leaders from decreasing lengths of stiff nylon (Tynex/ Mason Hard)followed by increasing lengths of soft (ordinary) nylon. When cast, these automatically land in a series of decreasing curves, giving plenty of slack for a "drag-free drift". Quite a jaw-dropping sight when you first put one out.

Or re-badge a "power waggler" rod as a "Dapper"!

Big Rik · Jun 23, 2005

if it has to be a fly, then a cream roe bug egg would probably do, or a mixer would be better.
(or a fake Enterprise one!!!)

Frothey · Jun 23, 2005

deer hair sedge dunked in salmon oil.

mark williams 4 · Jun 23, 2005

I don't think the 'fly' was the problem. We got interest shown in greased-up Blob, Salmon Egg Imitation, various ethafoam creations, White Booby, Daddy Longlegs and Hopper. In fact, the one fish we got took a white Booby.
I have a feeling it has to do with the line/hook, not the pattern. To test the thoery, I'll make up a load of glued-on real baits for next time, but meantime, anyone any suggestions how to disguise the leader - or a leaders that carop don't see?

Big Rik · Jun 23, 2005

matt finish Drennan double strength.

If it's only doubles then 6 or 8lb will suffice, anything bigger and you may have to step up in strength.

I've used 8lb Orvis flouro for carp on the fly gear, but that was because I was on a 9'6", 8 weight rod and artificial mixers.

davestocker · Jun 23, 2005

Have the carp wised up to floaters? It has happened where I fly fish for them, but I still managed 15-20 offers for three fish the other evening.

Does your biscuit fly sit in, rather than on the surface, like the bikkies do? I use 3 bunches of natural deer hair spun Muddler-style onto a size 6 Mustad saltwater hook, then clipped to biscuit size. The hook weight balances perfectly the buoyancy of the dressing. I do not use gink or any other floater. It makes the fly sit too high on the surface. The biscuits I use lighten in colour when wet, but a lighter coloured fly worked less well than a natural deer hair one, so that?s all I use now.

Did you try retrieving a sunken biscuit fly through the fish? Last year I got some smallish carp into a surface feeding frenzy, and caught by retrieving beneath the fish. But this has never worked with larger fish. It seemed to be the competition between the fish that made them incautious.

As for leader mono, 9 feet of 10lb Maxima clear does me fine. Degreasing doesn't seem to matter too much.

Frothey · Jun 23, 2005

or try an imitaion that'll really slowly sink in front of them

Robin Higgins · Jun 23, 2005

I've been doing a lot of "Carp on the fly" stuff this summer at the Chilham Match Lake in Kent and so I know the info detailed below will catch. The successful setup has been a 6-9' leader of 6lb double strength, knotless knotted to either a size 12 Drennan barbel hook or a size 10 super specialist. Bait has been an 8mm corkball (cheap from Ebay!)

Now here are what I consider to be the important bits....

1. The super specialist was way too shiny until I doctored it with a black marker. It was very noticable that more fish came confidently on the dull, teflon coated, barbel hook.

2. The leader was greased with vaseline apart from the last 6" before the hook.

3. Bait wise, I tried the Enterprise mixers last season but they are too heavy to cast gently. I find one of the advantages of the fly rod/corkball is that you are able to drop the bait right on a fish's nose without it spooking and this advantage is lost when the rubber mixer goes in like a depth charge!

4. Feeding is the key - get them going mad first and you're more likely to get the all important take.

5. Chilham, being a snake-lake type water has a good flow depending on the wind strength, almost like fishing a canal. It is difficult to control the fly in these conditions but I've had good results by persevering and mending the line as much as possible.

Hope this helps. if you need any more info let me know.

Robin

GrahamM · Jun 23, 2005

Agree with above and I'd add that I use fluoro and take the shine off it by drawing it through a lump of mud squeezed between finger and thumb. This also helps it to sink, which is what you want rather than it lying on the surface. You have to cast often as you can only allow the leader to sink up to a few inches before it's sank too far and dragged the bait under. A very bouyant bait helps a lot, as does a very long leader of 16ft or more.

mark williams 4 · Jun 25, 2005

Really useful tips, gentlemen. I will be giving all of them a go, and report back soon. Maybe write a bit for the website with a few pictures. Thanks again.

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one) · Jun 25, 2005

Mark
Say Hiya to Chris for me ....How is he ??

The last time I saw him was ages ago when he came to do a feature on Roger and I at a lake outside Chester that was full of Tench and Trout (strange mix)owned by a millionaire who had given us permission to fish and do a feature for AT----

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one) · Jun 25, 2005

He (Chris) had some nice trout from there ..

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Jun 25, 2005

Try this.

Fish the downstream end of the lake and hide behind a bush. Put out sufficient freebies so that you have the carp feeding with abandon.

Then lower your floating bait/fly onto the water without casting. There must be no leader floating on the water. Make sure you have a bit of slack to give the carp when one of them takes your bait.

Works every time but it's no good if one of your mates prances up the bank and asks you if you've "Ad owt."

davestocker · Jun 25, 2005

We've got another thread going on this subject, albeit more focused on the dog biscuits themselves. Full of good stuff. go to

<a href=http://www.fishingmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/UTN/15402/URN/1/dt/4/srchdte/0/cp/1/v/6/sp/target=blank>Dog Biscuit</A>

mark williams 4 · Jun 25, 2005

Ed. Chris is fine. Poor sod had a run-in with cancer, which scares the wits out of us all, but he's recently got the all-clear, and I've never seen him more focused and happier.
I keep trying to persuade him to write a book about his extraordinary life, but I think I need fluorocarbon because he hasn't taken the bait!
I don't think Chris ever has understood how much his Dawn Patrol features in AT inspired anglers, and me in particular.
Anyway, he's fishing like a good 'un, when he's not birdwatching.

GrahamM · Jun 25, 2005

Mark, please give my regards to Chris. Maybe me, you, Ed and Chris could get together sometime for a wrinklies fly fish-in.

mark williams 4 · Jun 25, 2005

I'll certainly do that, Graham. And I'll see whether he's up for a get-together (though I sure he can be convinced!)

Fishing Gimp · Jun 25, 2005

Snake cast so that there is no drag and use flouro well degreased. You could also if you only have a normal leader tie in a micro swivel and use about two foot of flouro or sinking mono. The benefit of the micro swivel is that it sinks the line to the 'Fly' which needs to be fairly bouyant. It also prevents the carp from twisting off the hook which they do with some frequency if using barbless.

'Fly' fishing for carp

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