Again Bob

During the 60s I did a lot of barbel fishing on the Yorkshire rivers with Mk IV, floppy hat, Mitchell 300 and sausage meat paste. We used to touch leger at night and by crikey did we catch barbel. I remember catches in excess of 30 fish at times.

We thought that touch legering was the thing until I stated putting the rod in rests and the barbel started hooking themselves.

We had a guy in the Northern Specimen Group called Roy Ward. He used to attach a whopping great lump of lead to his rig, the idea being that barbel would "hook themselves" against the weight of the lead and he would miss less bites.

There is absolutely no doubt that the majority of barbel rigs used on the Trent are slightly modified carp rigs, and only slightly modified at that.

My own rig these days is very similar to the rig that Big Rik described some years ago, the only exception being that the hook length is some 4 feet long.

If there is something I do not like about single species groups such as the Carp or the Barbel society is thew fact that when you read their newsletters, magazines or websites, all you read about is carp or barbel as if they were the only fish that mattered.

Let's face it guys, a carp, or a barbel or a chub, is just another species of fish - no more.

And barbel are not the most difficult fish to catch.

We should never attempt to elivate single species as being something special, almost a deity! I don't think this does the sport of angling any good in the long term.

It leads to an over proliferation of the species in the waters where they do not belong, and I am including rivers here. This results in the dermise of other species. The rudd is a prime example.

This is why the formation of the Don Valley Specialist Group is a darned good idea. We in the group are not single species crazy, and this is healthy make no mistake.

I hope more groups like ours will appear.

enjoyed that one Bob, it was a bit easier to read than the last two!

Lets hope Bob gets better soon if only to give his keyboard a rest!

Still its been good stuff!

"Carp Angler: Perhaps you?ve finally hit on the difference between us there. As carp anglers we actually think"

Almost a s big a sweeping statement as the one from the Barbel Society that started the whole debate that one Bob.....

Well said Ron!

Adam and I were talking about this at the weekend. He's more of a Carp Angler and I have grown up a more match orientated style.

He had witnessed the weigh in up by Cromwell weir and was shocked to see how poorly the Barbel were treated. He was saying how Match Anglers were backward and that they had a lot to learn from Carp angling.

I said that was a generalisation, that it was a minority and that we all had a lot to learn from each other.

Adam pointed out that almost all my tackle was developed for Carp fishing. Apart from my quivertips and swimfeeders he was dead right.

Of course not all Barbel anglers fish for Barbel in the way I do on the Trent or the way Bob describes.

"We should never attempt to elivate single species as being something special, almost a deity! I don't think this does the sport of angling any good in the long term."
Too true Ron however as with Carp now Barbel and in recent times Lure fishing for Pike it is in the interest of those who sell tackle and bait to continue the myth that these fish above all others are easy if you buy the right gear / bait / lure then change the rules so that the next best bait/bit of tackle/lure is the only thing that will catch and so on and so on.Meanwhile those most likely to fail continue to do so as they are continually changing bait,rig,lake etc trying to achieve what they keep being told is easy.Unlike Pike and Carp Barbel do not have a dedicated widely avilable magazine(s)which spread he word.They do have internet sites though and if you read some of the rubbish on them it is plain to see where it is all going.

Quite correct Deecy.

Barbel can look after themselves in the rivers that they belong.

I would love to see the same enthusiasm shown to the rudd, or even the dace.

Ron, tell me where the big Rudd and Dace are and I'll show you the enthusiasm!

Fantastic Articles Bob .....Please keep it up.

On eliteism in fishing, just a thought.

If I am Carp fishing and hit a head of good bream or tench I have no hesitation in scaling down or changing tactics to exploit the find.
Similarly if after tench or bream and get cracked off a couple of times again, no hesitation in beefing up or sticking a bolt rig on again to exploit the current situation.

fishing to me has always been about ringing the changes to catch fish and id never be able to get in a single species rutt even for a session never mind a fishing 'career'.

A 3lb perch while fishing for carp with worms is still worth the dayticket.

However a simple statement overlooked be the holier than thou crowd.
'Each to their own'

I've just managed to pick myself up off the floor after laughing so much, its all so very true. I fished soley for carp for 3 years and use much of what I learnt in my all round specimen angling now, likewise I was a match angler and use that just as much too. Fishing is fishing, ever since some genius had the idea of putting a bait on a hook, now who's going to take the credit for that ?

I too wish I could find some big rudd Matt.

A two pound rudd is worth far more than a thousand 30lb ratfish.

I am prepared to pay ?100 a day on any fishery where I have the chance of catching a 2lb rudd.

And it's the same with dace, only I am looking for fish of 12oz.

Any takers?

Ron the lakes I fish have in the last 3 years produced 2 Rudd that I know about without a shadow of doubt at 2lbs 9oz and 2lbs 10oz, both caught hard on the bottom on sweetcorn whilst fishing for Tench. Nobody that I know of specifically targets them.

Right Richard, where do you live? Can I be put up for a reasonable amount, say ?40 a night for 7 or 8 days. Is there a boat available on the water?

Is it a big water?

Is it a wild water?

I am starting to get very interested indeed.

Bob,
I agree in what you say. remember my first descent carp rods were 1.75tc. Now my barbel rods are...1.75tc. People should reconise the part played in other ways of fishing has on their catches.

Bob.

Ron`s talking money.................again ,give it a rest Ron ,we all know you have plenty ,it`s getting a bit vulgar ,remind`s me of posh and becks !

Les, I am 63 years old. I do not have all that much longer to live, certainly not with reasonable health.

I have a bit of spare cash - yes.

So before I kick the bucket I would like to experience a little of the fishing I had in the 50s and 60s. And amongst other species, that means big rudd and dace, also big river roach.

In wild waters!

This means a great deal to me.

Surely you do not begrudge an old man who wants to re-live a little of his youth.

Ron ,As it was a bloody long time ago , no ,but write that sodding book !

Ron ,Thinking about it ,I`m only 8 year`s behind you ,sod all mate !

Ron venue is South Norfolk. If you wanted to have a look, we have a spare room and would not dream of charging. I could probably arrange 24hr ticket at ?10 per 24hrs. Its a gravel pit, acres I'm guessing, 15 approx. Boat may be able to be arranged.
A couple of years ago I saw a large shoal of biggish fish, definitely not Bream just under the surface.
Water also has Tench to 8lbs and Bream to 10-11lbs, but by NO means an easy water.