The Great Matt Hayes Scam?

Paul H · Jul 14, 2005

Fishtec brochure in this weeks AT.
Pages 19 and 20.

Page 19, TF Gear X-Bait Reel, 'Designed to Matt Hayes exact specifications', 'Patented bait feeder one-touch lever clutch system'.

Now turn the page and compare it to Okumas Interceptor at the top.

Hmmmmm...... ?10.00 dearer too.

I'll stick with my Okuma thanks.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Jul 14, 2005

It's all about marketing Paul.

When I bought my son his first decent cricket bat, there were two models we looked at, both made by Stuart Surridge and both identical in weight and quality as far as I could see.

One of them had the signature of Ian Botham on it. It cost 25% more than the other

Guess which one he wanted?

Paul H · Jul 14, 2005

Surely if this is an 'interceptor' in disguise then claiming it was designed to Matts exact specifications is a lie?

Trade descriptions act?

GrahamM · Jul 14, 2005

Unless Matt designed it in the first place for Okuma.

I don't know if he he did, but let's be careful here and not make too many assumptions decorated with accusations of untruths and offences against the trades descriptions act.

Paul H · Jul 14, 2005

I have been careful to say 'in my opinion' and 'if'.

It is true that He could have been the original designer.

I do find these marketing techniques offensive to my intelligence tho (Assuming this is an Okuma reel, which it may not be). 'Save ?20.00' and it's still ?10.00 dearer than the Okuma, what a bargain!

chavender · Jul 14, 2005

okuma make the reels for others like TFG you take them a list of specifications and
your designs ie colour sceames & logo's etc
then they'll see if they have a stock reel
that matches or is close to your designs &
spec's and then re-jig the moulds etc

and a presto you have a reel to your own
design (in conjunction with okuma)so it may
look simular to their range (don't most of
the budget/none brand name reels !!)but you
desisned it,its like building a hotrod car
you design how it looks and what goes under
the bonet,wheels etc but underneath all the
gloss and bits its still a reliant robin .

chavender · Jul 14, 2005

wonce you have your reel designed and built
then it is all down to marketing ,matt has
his name and reputation and own company to
trade on and overheads to meet and where as
okuma who mass produce can afford to sell
cheeper and their brand name isn't as well
known as say diawa have to price their stuf
accordingly even if they are probably the
bigger producer of reels (theirs & others).
its all about supply and demand and in this
world of brand/logo driven market place the
names that that people know best are the ones that demand the best prices.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Jul 14, 2005

This is very true Chavender.

I sell a certain filter cartridge that out performs all the better known ones many times over at nearly 1/2 the price of the others.

I know it's better because I've had it tested it against the others by an independant laboratory.

Yet some customers remain sceptical. It takes ages before these customers do come round to the fact that this is what they should have been buying ages ago.

I guess it's the same with certain makes of reels. Certainly I am most impressed by the Okuma reels and if I need any new ones, which at the moment I don't, I may be looking very hard at the Okumas.

Wolfman Woody · Jul 14, 2005

A well known centrepin manufacturer was approached by a "well known" angler and asked if they wanted to put his name on the back of their centrepin.

Three reels were suitably engraved, that's all, and the "well known" angler asked for ?30 for each reel for using his name. He was given a oft used term in reply. (4 & 3)

Manufacturer are allowed to make some strange statements at times, this is what the courts call "puff" (nothing to do with homosexuals) as in "huff and puff". Like Chavender says, perhaps Matt specified the colour therefore it was designed to his "exact specifications".

As for the "Patented bait feeder one-touch lever clutch system" does it say that Matt has the patent? It could well be Okuma's patent, but they (TFG) are quite entitled to say it is a "patented" system. In the end, you pays your money and takes your choice.

Paul H · Jul 14, 2005

Isn't the world of marketing and law interesting.

sorry I meant confusing, misleading and greedy.

In my opinion.

Wolfman Woody · Jul 14, 2005

It's how many people (solicitors [sorry Nigel], barristers, judges, clerks of the Court) make their living.

Frothey · Jul 14, 2005

why pay ?40 for a quiksilver t-shirt when you can buy the same thing in primark for ?3?

i know which one i buy!

it goes on all over the place....dont know why people get so worked up.

what about sandwich shops, 1p of bread, a smear of butter and 7p of cheese'n'pickle...hey presto ?2.50 sandwich. no one moans about that.......

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Jul 14, 2005

It's all about value added Mate. This is what makes the world go around. We all have to make a profit put do it the honest way by the sweat of your brow.

That sandwich has to be put together by a certain amount of labour.

Some of the most cost effective items you can buy are also some of the most expensive.

If a pair of shoes costs you ?100 and lasts 5 years, then they are cheaper than a pair of shoes that costs ?15 and lasts 6 months.

And the reliablity and comfort of the more expensive item tells you straight away where you should be investing your hard earned cash.

Paul H · Jul 14, 2005

But they are paying for staff and premesis rental etc...
They have made the sandwich and it is a convenience for people.
I would moan if in the same shop the same sandwich was ?2.50 in a paper bag or ?5.00 in clingfilm.

It just riles me a bit that's all.

I know what you mean about t.shirts etc... but clothes can be a fashion statement, the label or brand is part of the look, I used to be succeptable to this more when younger.

A fishing reel is a tool not a fashion statement, and with this particular case anyone who was able to distinguish and be bothered about a brand would think it was an Okuma anyway. Not that there is anything wrong with sourcing things from other suppliers.

I'm not particularly worked up, just think it's darned cheeky that's all.
The fact people are taken in by it worries me more. No wonder we are a nation of debt riddled credit freaks.

Wolfman Woody · Jul 14, 2005

and tackle tarts.

Deecy · Jul 14, 2005

To add fuel to the fire at present there is an ad running in the Carp mags for TF Gear ready made Carp rigs which indicates the Mr Hays (deliberate mistake , long story) and Lee Jackson are cleaning up using these ready made rigs. Hays well may do so but I am certain that Lee Jackson would not go nearer to a ready made rig than passing one over the counter. I may be wrong but then again ?
On the other hand I have just ordered something grom Fishtec which majors in TF Gear , good service cheapest around for the thing I wanted and ?20 free gift on top.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Jul 14, 2005

Quite correct Paul.

Labels to me and lots' of others denote cheap tack and kitch that no-one with taste would ever be seen wearing or using.

You have to look hard to find the label on a Savile Row suit or a Jermyn Street shirt for example. Aston Martin do not stick loud and fancy labels on their cars. And even Harrison rods have a subdued label.

I happen to know that certain items of footwear manufactured in South Korea leave the same factory with several lables on them.

Some will say: Nike and command a price of over ?100 in the west. Some will say very little and get sold for less than a tenner.

The West is indeed gullable.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Jul 14, 2005

Oh by the way Deecy, regarding free gifts. There is no such thing.

An American businessman told me many years ago that there was no such thing a a free lunch.

Good service however is worth a great deal of money. I do not mind paying a bit more of the service is good and the product has sound technical back-up.

We should never mind that because it means that the company suppying you cares.

And the person who considers only the bottom line of a quotation sheet, needs to learn a great deal about business.

Paul H · Jul 14, 2005

Very true Ron,

The trick is to learn the difference between overpriced copies, tat and labels and good quality value.

Not suggesting Mr Hayes products are tat obviously, I have seen several of his products recieve very favourable write ups (He said looking over his shoulder for the pack of lawyers).

Deecy · Jul 14, 2005

Well I know what you mean re a free ride Ron but I have got to say the item I bought was ?20 less than everywhere else,and the free gift retails at ?20.P&P was below the norm so I can't complain.Ok the free gift is probably not costing Fishtec anything like ?20 but in their defence I was offered something I did not need, the thing I got was something I will use very often so in this case I am reporting what I perceive to be a good service which on my one time experience would say is worthwhile others looking at.The same strategy has worked on me with CC Moores,similar ploy and excellent service to back it up.

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