Clumber Park

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john ledger

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Very good friend of mine and well known local match angler stopped me yesterday to give some disturbing news about this once prolific roach fishery.
He told me anglers where struggling to catch fish and one of the reasons was the lake had been netted and roach removed and sold.On questioning two National Trust Bailiffs one said no netting had taken place while another admitted fish had been removed and sold.
Has anybody heard anything?
Anyone who has knows Clumber Park will know that like Welbeck Lakes it was one of the finest roach fisheries in England with two pound roach common and plenty of double figure bream to throw in.
I am pretty certain my old pal Ron Clay will be annoyed to hear this because like me he fished Clumber in its heyday and what an heyday
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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My love affair at Clumber Park Lake goes back to my childhood and WW2.

On my Mother's side, many of her relations were in service to the Duke of Newcastle. My Uncle Charles also was a gardner and footman on the Thoresby estate. One of my ancestors was a blacksmith who made the wrought ironwork in Clumber Church. It is there still for all to see.

I fished Clumber as a child and the jewel of that lake were its roach. They were of a big average size. Bread was THE bait as well as worms for the perch. In later years the lake held good bream, fish up to 8lbs were common.

I have heard rumours that they may stock the lake with toy ratfish. I shall be devastated if they do.

I fished Clumber Lake
 
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john ledger

Guest
Ron
I know the National Trust will do anything for money.They used to charge for getting in to the park and then to fish,this whole affair stinks and i am beginning to wonder if they are trying to make this once great lake a carp fishery.The area where the Poulter joins which was so prolific with roach you had to be there at midnight is now according to my man devoid of fish.
I enjoyed so many good times in the deeper water at Hardwick village particulary in Autumn
 
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Ian Cloke

Guest
I often go to clumber for walks with my family, the reason for the loss of stock is cormorants! They are/were there in high numbers, the park (being a national trust) wouldn't deter them.

There are still some decent bream in there, but, even these have scars from the cormorants beaks. A friend of mine used to be a regular there, he hasn't been in over a year. He says it's too hit and miss now, if you get on the big bream you can have a decent days sport. however there are more blank days than good days.
 
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Michael Townsend 3

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I was fishing Clumber around the time the roach vanished five or six years ago.
Through the autumn and winter good catches of good roach were taken from the usual hotspots even though the water level was lowered to allow maintainence work on the dam wall.
When i came back to fish it after the close season a carp angler (the first i had seen on here) told me there was no roach in the lake now. I thought the sun must have got to him and proceeded to blank from pegs where 10lbs of roach was a bad day for a good roach angler.
I couldn't believe it, and made several trips to see if any other anglers were catching, which of course they wern't.
I started talking to a bream angler (who caught them to over 10lb from Clumber last year) and he told me his mate swore to him that he saw the roach being netted in the close season and taken away in lorries. Several other people also said the same, with some suggesting it was done because of anglers clashing with the public because they were riding and walking into unshiping poles.This is what i also believe as the place went from being stuffed with quality roach to devoid of them in one close season.
This sounds daft, but i feel sorry for the herons. They used to line up down the far side like statues waiting for their dinner, but now like the roach they have gone.
Whether this is the reason or if cormorants have had the feast of feasts it is a disgrace.
 
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Matt Brown

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I caught my first 2lb Roach from Clumber in 1985 (aged 15). It was a school trip and it was the only way I could get there to fish.

I used to read about the Roach, the Bream and the Tench and now I've got transport there's no fish.

What a shame.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

Guest
I often get the feeling in my later life that I must start a crusade.

A fight to bring back the true indigenous fishes to the waters of this country. Let's face it, where are the great roach waters these days? And where are even the rudd?

I'll tell you what the problem is - carp!!

The stocking of carp is now way over the top and it's time something was done. It's time something was said against the overstocking of what is not even an indigenous species to this country.

I dispare when I read the big fish reports in the AT and hardly any decent roach are mentioned, to say nothing of big rudd.

It's carp, carp, carp, carp and more bloody carp. Personally I get sick of it.

Sure there are plenty of barbel reports, but barbel are natural indigenous species that have not, as yet, been genetically manipulated too much by man.

In comparison, carp are nothing other than overgrown goldfish.

I read of the fish disease in the North West. According to AT it is only affecting carp. I sincerely hope that is the case.

Perhaps this disease, whatever it is, is nature telling us - no more!!

Lets all the carp die off and let's for goodness sake stock some good British species. In the long term it will benefit all of us.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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And by the way, I hate and detest that term: "Silver Fish"

Who the heck coined this ridiculous phrase.

It would be far better to say: "Indigenous Fish!"
 
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Ric Elwin

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You really don't like Carp, do you Ron!

I'm with you on the 'Silver Fish' thing. I started a thread to this effct some time ago. I feel that it's a disparaging group name for all non- Carp species.
 
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Matt Brown

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Ron, wasn't it the 17th century Monks that stocked all the Carp? Maybe you could dig them all up and tell 'em off!

I think Cormorants have done the most damage. I get the impression their numbers are balancing out to a more sustainable level.

I think we'll see a resurgance of Roach, Rudd and Dace etc in a few years.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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I've already dug up one of them Matt. And do you know, he agrees with my sentiments regarding the over-proliferation of carp.

There is no doubt that carp were in this country long before the 17th centuary. In fact some believe that the Romans brought them.

Certainly cormorants have done a great deal of damage. There seems to be less of them flying around than 10 years ago.

What we want is some proper management of the population of sea fishes.
 
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Mark Hodson

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Whilst chatting to a fishery manager a couple of weeks ago he stated that is impossible to get a supply of roach or any silverfish from the EA since their fish farm disease disater and as result the price of such fish from a good disease free water had shot up. The National Trust probably got an offer they couldn't refuse. I also heard on the grapevine that the EA are seaching the land for new breeding stock.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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And years ago the roach used to be the most common fish in English waters. It really is time the EA did something about the conservation of our indigenous species.

During the 19th century the Trent contained virtually all the species of fish in England.

The motto "Swim Wild Swim Free" should not just apply to barbel.

I would like a see an association in England called: "The Wild Fishes of England Society" or something like that.
 
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Matt Brown

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I don't think we need another group.

As you said Ron the EA should be doing something and I'm sure they are, but I;d like them to do more.
 
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Paul Mallinson 2

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Ron, You mention that during the 19th century that all the fishes of britan swam in the Trent. Which ones dont now? I cant think of any, except for maybe lampray?

I also have ancestory in the grounds of clumber park Ron, my mothers grandparents lived there and I believe her Grandad was head gamekeeper to the estate. Both of my Grandparents (my Mothers parents) have there ashes sprinkled in the grounds. I think I most likely still have distant relations living there.

As for the fishing, its great shame if the roach have been netted and sold. If that is the case the NT should hang their heads in shame. I never fished there but I can remember on family visits walking round and watching the fishermen.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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How the River Trent got it's name is shrouded in mystery. There are those who say it was because of 30 tributaries. (Trent comes from the Latin meaning 30)

There are others who say it held 30 species of fish.

These days the fish that are rare in the Trent of interest to the angler are bleak and dace, and to a certain extent - roach.

A few years ago whilst barbel fishing I often caught the odd decent chub. Fish up to 5 lbs or so. I haven't had any for ages.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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Our old family cottage by the way is still standing at Hardwick village.
 
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Paul Mallinson 2

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Ron, yes I think there is still a lot of Chub on the non tidal river. A friend who is a very good stick float angler always seems to manage to catch a few up to around 5lbs every time he goes but then he knows the pegs to fish as well.

I dont know a lot about my Roots in hardwick village but I can remember visiting there a few times as a child (maybe 10-15 years ago). Maybe we are related Ron, now there a scary thought!
 
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