Rig Help.

Cheeky because because I'm fishing for bream and Tench primarily but any carp that come along are a welcome bonus.

I fished a night about a week ago and caught 1 bream and 1 tench but I had a carp come off and the bream was hooked on the outside of the mouth. Because of this I'm trying to think about how to change my rigs and have come up with the following.

Running rigs (either leads or method feeders) - this is for better bite indication as the bream and tench do not scream off. The leads should not be too free running though and plenty heavy enough so that they still provide a self hooking effect.

Hooklenghts - Kryston snake bite 6 - 8 inches. from the eye of the hook there should be about 3 inches with the coating stripped back to provide suppleness and allow any fish to pick up the bait easily. The rest of the hooklength the coating should be left in place to provide stiffness and anti tangle properties.

Hooks Raptor T6's in size 8 - just a good reliable sharp hook.

Baits Poped up sweetcorn, one grain floating and one grain sinking. I was think of using the shot on the hook rig to keep the bait low in the water as I'm fishing over particles and groundbait and also to help the hook catch.

What do you all think of that? In your experience will that be an efficiant rig for hooking bream and tench?

Thanks
Paul

the kit seems fine, but how are you attaching the hook? what turning capabilities do you have? on your pop-ups how close is the bait to the hook?

I'd prefer a bolt effect for the tench and a much more forgiving rig (eg paternoster with a long bobbin drop) for the bream. I've found short hooklinks (3 - 4") excellent for the tench using scaled down carp rigs.

No issues with your points Sash, but he seems to be having an issue with his hooking, with the bream being hooked on the outside of the mouth etc.

I have been attaching the hook with a knotless knot and fishing the corn tight to the shank of the hook. I have been using a small piece of silicone on the hook to hold the hair/bait close to the bend. Before I was popping up two grains of corn off a shot pinched as close to the hook as possible and using a Gardner Mugga hook in size ten. This was the first time I had used a coated hooklength and there was only about 2cm of the coating stripped next to the hook. (Bream and tench came to this rig).

The Carp was lost on a standard bottom bait with the hook attached knotless knot. The hooklength coating was only stripped back enoughto tie the hook on. Being the first time I have used this hooklength I didnt strip enough coating off before tieing the hook on.

If I was fishing just for tench then I would as you say sash be using short hooklengths and bolt rigs.

I am a bit confused about what you say about turning capabillities Stu? A bit of a novice at this I'm afraid.

Cheers
Paul

What I was trying to say was (not very well admittedly!) that tench and bream feed differently (and have different body/mouth shapes) so I don't believe that one rig/method will be as good for one species as another and if a compromise is being searched for then why not fish one rod on a tench rig and another on a bream rig?

I've also found that on some waters tench shy away from anything popped up, on others they'll have it in preference to a bottom bait. Just because you've hooked the odd tench doesn't mean there aren't loads 'getting way' with it.

Initial thoughts:

Re the bream - the T6 has a short shank and inturned point which I wouldn't have thought would be the best hook for instant pricking wether line aligned or not. Try a straight pointed hook with a slightly longer shank. A size 8 is still a big hook for a small mouthed bream.

Bream tend not to bolt whatever the rig so why not fish a rig that allows plenty of movement before causing a lead reaction but still registering at the rod end. I've found it better to hover over rods and strike at bites when bream fishing rather than hitting an already hooked bolt-rigged fish such as carp or tench (which do bolt dependant on the rig/hooking arrangement).

I accept that Bream and tench are different fish and as such I will not find a 'perfect' rig for both but If I fish one rood on a bream rig and one on a tench rig invariably the bream will pick up the tench rod and vice versa so I'm after somthing that will catch the majority of both fish.

I have seen the Korda DVD's Sash and understand that there may be a few Tench getting away with my rigs but not loads because there arnt loads in the water, therefore I suppose the rig should be mostly aimed at the bream.

I also get the points about having a rig which is resistance free for the bream but the problem with this is I will be mostly night fishing and as such wont be able to haver over the rods all night so I would prefer somthing that is self hooking, and after all the Carp anglers seem to catch plenty of bream on there self hooking rigs. Also wasnt 'The Method' invented with bream in mind?

Point taken on the hooks, the bream though are apparently averaging around 9-10lbs this season so I wouldnt have thought the hook would be too small? What about somthing like the Korda long shank X then? I'm not sure if this hook has a straight point.

Looks like I've a lot to learn about rigs! Are there any good books out there on rig mechanics?

Thanks for your thoughts
Paul

Paul,
you could also try lengthening the hair so the bait is touching the bend of the hook right at the base (or even a couple of mm away from it), this'll give the bait more movement and allow the hook to follow into the mouth instead of going in right next to the bait. This could be why the hook hold was on the outside of the mouth.

I think Stu was refering to the hooks' ability to flip over into the bottom lip of a taking fish, this can be achieved for example using a line aligner as Sash mentioned using some shrink tubing to increase the angle at which the line leaves the eye of the hook, so that when the rig is layed accross your hand a gentle draw of the hooklength will see the hook turn over and the point catch in the palm (obviously take care when trying this)this effect is mirored when a fish picks up the bait.

Excuse my ignorance here but:

If I lengthen the Hair how would this improve the rigs hooking abilities? What you say about giving the bait more movement so the hook dosent follow the bait directly into the fish's mouth, I would have thought it would be better to have a short hair so that the hook does follow the bait into the mouth and goes as far back as possible improving the chance of the hook catching?

Should a line aligner then be curved towrds the poing of the hook? Like in a withy pool rig but not as far? I always thought line aligners continued as an extension of the hook shank. I've never really been sure how these work either.

I know I'm trying on patience!

Cheers
Paul

I agree with Sash and Rodders here and more importantly I agree with you Paul in that you should investigate rigs a little more. Start with a line-aligner on a longshank hook, that'll catch bream, tench and carp no issues.

These may seem a little dificult to tye at first but once you've got the hang of it you're away. The knotless knot is a good all-round hook attachment, but the line aligner will turn faster and dig in better every time.

Correct me if I'm wrong here then but a line aligner is just a knotless not with a length of shrink wrap shrunk around the shank of the hook and extending up the hook lenght? Is it curved in towards the poing of the hook or not?

Paul,
I meant the hook DOES follow the bait in, directly behind the bait, rather that right up against it as this can limit the area the hook can work in.

when the bait is taken into the fishes mouth the hook and bait are subjected to several different forces.

First centrifugal force created by a vacuuum as the fish sucks in the bait and whatever else is small and light enough to be carried in.

Then there's a temporary void (which I'd liken to when a liquid is sucked into a straw and a finger placed over the top) this is when the mouth closes the mouthfull of liquid stop being thrown around and the heavier particles like the hook fall to the bottom of the mouth.

Then as the fish is testing the edible parts from the initial gulp the Gills filter out sediment and other unwanted pieces and a finaly a pump of the gills to expell all larger unwanted parts.

This is when the hook and bait being slightly seperate helps and also the turning of the hook using the line aligner. The light bait can be blown away from the hook slightly keeping it clear to do it's job and as the hook has now turned it is free to catch in the bottom lip as per the test on the hand.

So yes as you describe the aligner is angled towards the hook point (the angle is down to personal preference).

Paul you said "I know I'm trying on patience!"

Absolutly NOT, I just recently had some advice from the lads about this subject after buying shrink tubing. I still need to read these threads as there's always someone with an idea which surpasses the accepted knowledge of any subject, especially in angling.

Keep the questions coming, it's how this site flourishes and the forums are the best on the net.

Paul, yes it is.

The mechanics are as follows: when the fish swallows back the rig into its mouth, it will soon realise that something?s not altogether right with what its just swallowed. The reaction is panic, then the wish to expel the rig, bait and hook as quickly as possible. On blowing the rig back out, the line aligner with its fast turning action will drop straight into the bottom lip and attach itself (hence the term anti eject). There is a lot more science to it than that but if you?re at early stages with your rigs we?ll leave that for later.

The use of a longshank hook means a widening between the eye and the point of the hook which gives aid to a better hook hold and increases the turn somewhat due to the rigs overall shape.

Hope this helps?

Yes it does help a lot guys. I havent got a lot of time just now but later I will try and digest what I've just read and see if I have any further questions.

Thanks
Paul

no-problemo!

hmmm

Gary,

what does Hmmm mean? What you thinking? Would love to hear what you use for your bream fishing. I read your article in CF recently about bream fishing.