Cloning

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With the cloning of sheep, pigs and now dogs could they clone a fish like the record barbel or carp to create a copy of that fish?
Could you imagine a river full of 19lb plus barbel? Might be interesting!

Are they able to remove/add genes that would make the fish stronger and better protected against diseases and pollution?

Could they even clone Ron or Baz ?
 
M

madpiker

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the day that happens is the day that i give up fishing!!!!!!!!!!
 
R

Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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So would I.

Onme of the gret attractions of angling is its unpredictability. You are in persuit of a wild creature.
 
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I would agree with you both on that :)

What about if they could solve diseases like SVC and produce a carp that would not be affected by such?

Trouble is when us humans start messing with this stuff we always go to far.

On the other hand how pure are our fish? Have they changed from their original ancestors to what we see now?
 
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madpiker

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that`s exactly why i go fishing ron,the hunting instinct in me drives me to hunt down and catch my chosen species of fish.if it was easy and all the fish were big and easy to catch the challenge would be gone.i`d just as well go to the funfair and catch plastic ducks!
 

Graham Whatmore

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Not so sure thats a good idea at all Stuart, I think nature does a pretty good job when it comes to natural selection and the only time it goes wrong is when man interferes. Domesticated animals are a different area where most of the imperfections are as a result of mans selective breeding rather than natures, and I include carp in this as well. I don't recall massive carp kills 25 years ago before they started filling every bit of water available with them.

No, I think wild creatures should be left to their own devices, let nature do its work.
 
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Don't get me wrong I'm not for it but just interested in views :)

Another thought I had was what if they altered the genes of signal crayfish so that they have a short life span or after mating where not able to produce. If cloning could remove this pest would you be up for it? I'm no expert on this so please take it easy on me:)

Oh I too would be bored if every fish were the same.

Domesticated animals like dogs are normally down to poor breeders who do not check heriditary lines or do health checks. I looked hard when finding my Newf due to health problems and its worth checking back 5 generations to check bloodlines in the hope you have a healthy dog or less chance of problems accociated with that breed.
 

Mark Wintle

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Stuart,

I thought we were already there as regards selective breeding of fish. Both carp and "rainbow" trout are far removed from their wild ancestors. What with sterile triploid trout, and now the mis-named F1 carp ( a crucian x carp cross) that is supposedly more resistant to disease, I'm not sure these are good moves.

Just like breeding of dogs and cats, you simply choose the ones with the characteristics that you think are "best", and breed from them. Do this through many generations, and in the case of dogs we get the many varieties of what are supposed to be the same species. With fish you take the fastest growing of each generation. Part of the problem with selective breeding like this is the danger of propagating genetic defects, partly through not knowing what defects are present, partly through the likelihood of in-breeding.

With rainbow trout, there is a wild ancestor, from the streams of California if my memory serves me right, that was then cross bred with Steelhead. Rainbow are naturally partially migratory like our own trout as are Steelhead (again from memory).

As for bigger fish, at the moment we can't even get a definitive reason for bigger fish in our rivers and lakes - longer growing season, warmer summers, hormonal pollution, less fish, lack of winter-kill, agricultural fertilizers, a mixture of the above?
 
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ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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Would cloning stillwater barbel make them more acceptable ....
 
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Thanks Mark for the great reply.

The Newfie world is very strange. They have tried to produce smaller dogs with shorter hair for showing which has created problems. In 1945 only 10 dogs were in the uk due to the war and now over 900 dogs a year are reg with the KC. The sad thing is that many have heart problems due to poor breeding done for money ( ?1000 per dog ) but luckily due to the UK club and some very wise people there are some real lovely full sized soft giants about :) They are also one off the oldest breeds going back to 1000AD.
Most health problems are now due to diet. A dog fed on a BARF diet will suffer less than one on commercial foods which tend to be high in protein levels and poor ingredients that create problems. Most never know what they feed their dogs and with some breeds like large/giants an increase in proteins at a young age can create growth problems and even bloat.
The trouble with BARF is you must know what you are doing and is just for the more experienced people.
Runny eyes, loose poo are classic signs of to much protein.
With some dog food contaning high protein levels it makes you wonder what affect he has if a fish eats a large amount.
 

Paul H

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Don't start on that one again Ed!
I know I set it off last time but I didn't know how far it would go.

:0)

This is another tricky topic, the advantages of disease control etc are obviously beneficial to all living things.

However how then does nature achieve it's balance? The population explosion is already partly due to modern drugs and health care.

Don't get me wrong I would hate to become seriously ill or have to go through the nightmare of losing someone close.

My point is that 'super bugs' like MRSA and the like are born from our use of antibiotics, bird flu is another disease accelerated by our (human) farming methods.
These in my opinion are natures way of trying to redress the balance, to nature we are just another living thing, no more or less important than the algae in your garden pond.

We have an 'optimum' planetary population which has been far exceeded and therein lies the cause of many of the worlds problems. Particularly our selfish belief that we have the right to meddle with nature, it has and will blow up in our faces again.

Genetics and cloning are just the next step in making things both better and a hell of a lot worse at the same time.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay

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Another problem is that the vast majority of the human species on this planet are ignorant and un-educated.

In most cases and to put it crudely, the only sort of pleasure many of these people know is to have sex.

As a result there are just too many people in the underdeveloped countries for the planet to sustain. One only has to look at Africa. Famines producing starvation and death. AIDS and other deseases produced by rampant promiscuity.

The answer is of course education. A well educated population is capable of wealth generation and as a result a better standard of living. Families are planned. In other words couples will give birth to children they can afford. Sex will cease to become the driving force in a persons life. Other things take over.

It will take many many years for the world's population to achieve what is now the norm in western countries. In the meantime, famine, death on a massive scale due to desease, malnutrition and overpopulation, will wreake havoc with the under developed world.
 

Paul H

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That is true Ron however even the population of Western countries is too high. People are living longer lives, fewer people are taken by disease and accidents due to our medical capabilities. Nature is fighting back with mutated infections resistant to our antibiotics and diseases which only become a threat to us because of the planets overcrowding.

People fear the outbreak of bird flu (Me included) but if there weren't so many people using intensive farming techniques and crowded into such small areas of land then it wouldn't be an issue. Basically the planet and nature are fighting back in a possibly futile effort to control us before we screw everything beyond repair.

Lord knows what kind of nightmare threat will arise from fiddling with genetics.
 

Paul H

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To relate this to original question;

This genetic 'super' fish impervious to disease and pollution (Why don't we just stop causing pollution?) goes on to eliminate other fish due to it's tenacious nature?

So to prevent this all species are re-created super equal. Non now die from disease, population numbers soar and again the balance is upset. Species of river insects and crustacions are decimated by an onslaught of healthy ravenous fish, natural food stuffs become scarce and the new super fish begin to starve and die out. Now the levels of natural food are so low that the fish population is lower than ever before and some species actually die off altogether.

Possibly.
 
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david bruce 1

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Aren't we already doing it with hormones and endocrin disrupters in the 'processed' water returning to the rivers.
 

Paul H

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Highly likely David, highly likely.

When will we learn that things are the way they are for a reason.

People wonder why some of these great muddy puddles stuffed with carp can suffer from high mortality rates and have to be fed artificially.
 
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Wolfman Woody

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Not only could it be done through selective breeding, but in experiments in the warm water environment at Calverton, tench were growing at several times the normal rate and I was told that this exceleration could continue after they were released into a cold water environment. Possibly leading to a 20lb tench in time!

as for "Could they even clone Ron or Baz ?" Now that is verging on the ridiculous, Stuart. You'd only want to recreate perfect stronger specimens - like me? :eek:)


and you!
 
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Wolfman Woody

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"exceleration" Where'd that come from?

Acceleration. sorry, maybe not so perfect after all. :-(
 
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Jeff I don't care if they do clone me but please could they make sure of a few extra inches in the you know where department :)
 
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Wolfman Woody

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Remember this Stuart. It's not the size of the gun, it's the force of the firing and in aiming it at the right spot!
 
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