line guide alteration

I am thinking of swapping all the single leg line guides to double leg, as i am fed up with the singles bending out of shape or breaking so easy. Even if you take the utmost care when putting in a rod bag and then into a tube, they still seem to bend or break. The pint is that would it alter the action of the rod if i were to replace them all with double leg guides. Whats your view. I,m talking light float rods here. Tight lines

Double leg rings weigh a bit more, so replacing singles with doubles will make the rod feel a bit softer. If the rod is one with an excess of rings (I define excess as more than one more ring per foot, plus tip eye) then the difference may be unacceptable.

However, I much prefer double-leg rings; like you I find singles a pain in the whatsit. If I had a rod with lots of single-leg rings and an otherwise excellent action I'd be tempted to strip them all off and re-ring with fewer double leg rings.

The whole single leg thing strikes me as a marketing strategy rather than an attempt at making the best rod possible. Manufacturers use single legs because they are cheaper and quicker to attach. A rod with fourteen double leg rings needs twenty-eight whippings; a rod with eighteen rings - a butt and seventeen singles - needs just nineteen whippings. Because the singles are lighter, they can add more without losing crispness - and make a big thing of it in the process.

The old argument that a double-leg ring stiffens the blank is nonsense. Take a double leg Fuji and flex it between finger and thumb; you'll find you can bend it about quite easily. Now try the same thing with a half-inch piece of carbon fibre tube - which is about the length of an intermediate ring. You'll hurt your fingers before you notice any flex at all.

The only way a double leg ring can stiffen a rod is if over-sized rings are fitted to a thin, flexible blank.

I like it boys! Join the triple-leg ring club (I call them triples, one leg forward, two aft on most rods).

I try to avoid buying them with single leg - "bend-em-and-break-ems" - as they also lead to more tangles, I feel. Can't get away with it completely though. I bought a Preston Excel and they're triple leg up to the first on the top section and after that single legged, but a lovely action!

It's economy, that's all.

On a personal note, I wouldn't change any, but if I did, i would only change the first to sections and leave the tip as it is.

I say this for one reason, by putting on double leg rings on the tip section, it may, just may change the action of the tip, all be it a little.

Remember the extra leg's will clearly take up more of the blank, some rods have single legs, not so much to cut weight, put because of the action of the rod.

I agree single legs can be a pain, ask Long John Silver..

If you bent or damaged the rings then you cannot have taken the utmost care. Simple as that.

Single legs are not any kind of marketing ploy or strategy. They DO make a big difference to the weight & balance of a light float rod. Many years ago I spent hours cutting twin legged (3 legs really, 2 at the back and one at the front) Seymo and Fuji guides down and filing them so as I could re-whip my Sundridge carbon rods. They made that much difference.

Don't forget it's not just the weight of the metal frame you save but more the weight of whipping & epoxy.

I've had a bit of bother with single legs rings bending on my favourite float rod, indeed it arrived secondhand with two beyond repair.

A lot of the problem is that they are clearly a bit weak, but it was made a lot worse by splashing out on a decent rod bag for it!

The bag was so tough that it just wouldn't let a section slide in without grabbing somewhere and I promise you I was as careful as possible.

I cured the problem by buying a cheap and nasty bag for it and saving the good 'un for an old cane rod. Now it never 'grabs' a ring and slips in and out of the rod tube easier too!


There are a number of double and treble leg rings that attatch their legs to the ring section in such a way that they do not restrict rod flex at all, and as Fred has said, they are far, far more flexible than a section of rod .... though I would be tempted to stick with single legs on the top section if at all possible simply due to the weight.






Click on the picture from Guidesnblanks to magnify it and you will see what I mean.......


BLNAG 3 leg Guide




Best of all are these, no flex issues here......

BNMVAG 3 leg stand off match guide

The only time my rods are in a rod bag is when i am bringing them home from the shop after buying them.

All my rod's, 2 and 3 piece rods, are left made up, I cover the tops and bottoms with rod protectors. If i take more than one rod with me, they go into a quiver holdall.

I have had no problems with rods getting any damage at all.

I do think the rod bags are to small for the rods, and as has been said, some are far to stiff.

I broke a single leg ring on my "shimano hyperloop 390ax fa" (to give it it's full and proper title), a 13 foot match rod, suitable for 3-6lb lines and casting upto 25grams (just under an ounce in old money).

I had all the single leg rings replaced with double leg. The rod feels no different to use except I think (this may just be a flight of fancy) it is not quite as sensitive for the smaller roach and gudgeon, i.e I din't think I can feel them fight quite as well.

Richox12...its not so much the care one takes with the single ring rods,its that they are(BECAUSE they have a single leg) must,by definition be far more prone to damage(one side of the ring unsupported)!

All my tackle is treated with great,great care yet still the single rings manage,on occasion to bend in the bag-something that has never happened to ANY of my old three leg rods in 60 years of fishing....
These old rods,some30/40years old are used occasionally and are still as good as the day I bought them....

You may well be correct about balance etc-I don't have that knowledge to argue that point-but for the life of me I cannot see how rings(providing a suitable number are fitted)can make that much difference....and how can you judge anyway unless you have two absolutly identical rods,side by side on the bank.....but perhaps you've done this,and with a similar weight fish on the end!!
.....and apart from anything else you'd get used to the change in a few days....wouldn't you???

For me,single rings have done nothing for my catches although the newer rods 'look' slightly sleeker-whatever that means......

20lb carp on singles or treble(rings)-feels the same to me and come to the bank just the same!!

....your welcome to your opinion though....add smilie things here....

Tee Cee. You are right. If a guide has 2 or 3 legs it must be stronger (more rigid) than the same size guide with 1 leg. But if you take great care you don't bend or damage rings. All of my own rods have been using primarily single leg guides for more years than I can remember and I have NEVER broken a guide. And that is both rods in cloth bags and rods made up in sleeves. So, I suspect there will be variation in quality of frame in terms of thickness and even metals used.

I have compared identical rods (light float rods and even carp rods) side by side whereby one has single legged guides and the other the same guides & same number of guides in the same positions with twin legs. You can feel the difference quite easily. Balance can be totally different. But then it needs to have a reel on so it is debateable how much that difference matters in use. But for fine top sections I believe it still makes a difference to action and how you can play and feel small fish.

Point taken......I'll give it a try with two types of rod when conditions permit....

.....from reading other comments above(changing over from one type of ring to the other on an existing rod)it would seem both types of ring are readily available?
Does it follow then that off the shelf rods are still available with 3 legged rings or is this only to special order?Those I've seen in tackle shops always have the single legs...
I imagine pike/zander rods would have them??