Little Differences

These days I use very little except fluorocarbon for my hook lengths and fly fishing leaders. I was convinced about the effectiveness of fluorocarbon many years ago when I spent a weekend at a famous South African trout water. I had a spool of the early stuff, I think it was called Grand Max Riverge. A friend got it for me from USA.

I hammered trout all week whilst others on the water got nothing. These series of lakes are crystal clear and I was convinced it was the fluoro that made the difference.

On British waters it has been the same. A few years ago I fished with an angler on a local trout water who couldn't get a take. He borrowed some of my flies and still didn't get a touch. Then it dawned on me. I told him to make up a leader with some of my Stren Fluoro. He told me he never used the stuff as he didn't trust the knows. I told him PLEASE to try.

He relented and caught three trout in four casts.

Ever since then I have used fluoro 100% for all my fly fishing. I now use ot for virtually 100% of my coarse fishing too.

When myslf and my frind John fished the fens in June, I was using a 4lbs fluoro hooklength tied to 5 lb standard mono hooklength. John caught very little. I thumped out the tench and bream.

And I could go on and on about occasions when fluoro so outfished other hook lengths until the cows come home.

You won't find me using much else for any kinds of fishing these days.

i concur whole heartedly if it's daylight i use fluorocarbon for hook lengths, but i will use braids in darkness.

If anglers of the calibre of Graham and Ron are convinced that fluorocarbon gives them an advantage, I wouldn't presume to argue with them. On the face of it, their empirical evidence is persuasive. As I've said before, though, I have found the shortcomings of fluorocarbon outweigh its supposed advantages.

The issue of density, as raised by Graham, is interesting. "Ordinary" (as in non-fluorocargon) monos vary in that some tend to float, while others tend to sink. They vary in smoothness and stiffness, too. And while Graham is correct in saying that some monos lose strength when wet (10-15% on average), some don't lose any discernible strength.

Fraught with subtlety, this line selection business!

Further to the subject of things that can make the difference between success or failure. I have a friend who was extremely successful with big pike (past tense because, although he's still a good friend, he no longer fishes for pike!). I mean, REALLY successful. It's not that he caught more pike than the rest of us, it's just that they were generally larger. If his big-pike photos are examined, it can be seen that he always wore a white shirt beneath his woollens etc. That was one of his strict observances when pike fishing - a white shirt. The other is more delicate in its nature, but concerned a specific and very personal type of abstinence the night before a pike trip...

I didn't believe for one moment that white shirts and/or abstinence could make a scrap of difference, but the empirical evidence was persuasive!

It is most heartening to see Jim join this debate. He is an all-round angler of vast experience and who has spent much time experimenting with lines, hook lengths, leaders etc.

Lets look at the advantages of PVDF (I'll stick to calling it PVDF as it saves my typing hand)

1: It is heavy compared to nylon, it sinks positively and sits on the bottom nice and evenly. As a fly leader it also sinks, often without the need to put fullers earth mixtures on it. As a float fishing hook length it makes it possible to use less shot. Maybe that might be an advantage.

2: It is almost invisible when hung down in the water. When laying on the bottom it becomes virtually invisible. Try it in the margins next to a bit of nylon.

3: It does not lose it's strength in water. It is what is called a hydrophobic material and repels water, unlike nylon which is hydrophillic and will absorb water. I have had much experience of both materials in the filtration industry.

4: It is very smooth and as Graham says this may give enormous advantages over braid.

Now look at the disadvantages:

1: Some PVDFs will break under sudden shock.

2: There are only a few knots which you can use. One of the worst is the grinner or uni-knot which is so effective with nylon. This shouldn't really be a disadvantage though if you know your knots.

3: PVDF has a tendency to become wriggly and kinky when sudden force is applied and them relaxed. I have only found this with some makes of PVDF however. Stretching it does not remove the kinks as it does with nylon.

4: It is virtually non-degradable and does not rot or oxidise like nylon. Dont leave it around. Unless burned it will last for ever.

5: It is expensive. Well it is in this country.

6: Some brands of PVDF are very suspect. Time and experience will teach you the makes to avoid.

But if you are aware of the flaws in the material, PVDF will help you catch more fish, I have no doubt about this.

Another thing I've found is that most fluoros have their true breaking strain stated on the label whereas the opposite is true of most 'ordinary' monos, they being rated at least 2lbs lighter than they actually are (at around and above the 8lb bs mark).

Anyone who tries fluoros should bear this in mind and either make sure they're buying the same true bs in fluoro that they normally use in mono, or play it safe and buy fluoro in a slightly higher bs.

As Ron says, fluoro has been used for many years as a fly leader. You can't afford to have any flaws in the leader to withstand the sudden shock of a fast moving rainbow trout taking a moving fly. The vast majority of fly fishers now use fluoro leaders for everything except dry fly fishing and surely they would have reverted to 'ordinary' mono had they experienced many unexplainable breakages.

However, what Jim says about emperical evidence is correct, as it is in most things fishing, including baits. What most times this amounts to is that you either gain or lose faith in something, and whichever that is it will dictate how well you fish with it.

Self confidence has always offered a better advantage than most tackle and bait!

Over the last 12 months I've tried fluoro but like others have had problems with its reliablility. The brands I've tried are Korda IQ, Sufix Invisiline and Drennan Fly Leader. The amount of fish I've lost means I now avoid the stuff like the plague.

I've always tied it using palomars and knotless knots. Any idea where I've gone wrong as most of the time it breaks at the knot?

I often use a fluoro tippet for dry fly fishing Graham. Yes it does in time sink the fly but I find a tippet that sinks quickly, especially on river fishing a tremendous advantage.

Perhaps the ideal way is to use a nylon leader with a 12 inch PVDF tippet at the end.

Stuart, I suffered reliability issues with berkley vanish but i've since switched to virage and found it to be pretty good. I've had some vicious takes on the method feeder and it's not let me down yet although I am using 1 1/4lb avon rods so it could be the soft action acting as a buffer.

Ron, you say about the grinner being a bad knot for flouro but this is what I have been using mainly because I know I can tie it properly but also because it is one of the recommended knots on the manufacturers packaging along with the palomar. I also use knotless knots and figure 8's for tying loops.

My answer to your problems is that some of those makes you are using are not good. I hate to say this about some of the top brand names.

The best fluorocarbon line in my experience comes from the company who invented the polymer - DuPont. They supply this line under various names, Stren and Seaguar being the most popular.

I have had also few problems with "Sightfree", "Uncle Jacks" and Lureflash Mamba Fluorocarbon Gold. All these three are aimed at the fly fishing market. They have to be good because a fly leader takes far more stick for it's diameter than normal coarse fishing hook lengths.

I never have problems with the knotless knot. However for tying on swivels, I find the Trilene knot excellent. For tying on small hooks and flies, the ordinary half blood is as good as anything.

I have had problems with the grinner or uni-knot make no mistake. I stopped using it years ago.

I don't know what's going on here, such diverse experiences with the same knots and lines.

One of my all time favourite fluoros is Invisiline. I use the knotless knot, the grinner and the palomar. I've had no problems.

Most important is: I pull all my knots tight very, very slowly and always wet the knot, often with a proprietary knot lubricant.

I use a slightly higher breaking strain in fluoro than the equivalent in 'ordinary' mono.

i've been using berkley vanish in 17lb on 1 rod for about 3 months and never had a problem - even with fish that managed to get into snags etc - yet some think its rubbish. even more liners than with krystonite. part of the problem for some people might be its lack of stretch?

knotless knot (with the right hook) palomar and grinner have all been ok

It may be the way some of us tie knots Graham. I would be the last person in the world to claim that I was a good knot tyer.

Maybe an article by a real expert in knots might not come amiss at this stage.

I always spit on my knots by the way; and still do. However a very competent fly fishing friend once told me it was wrong to spit on knots tied using fluoro.

By the way Graham what knot lubricant do you use?

It might be better than spit.

I think I need to go back to the drawing board with regards to my knots. Graham rates Invisline highly yet I've had problems with several differeny spools of it.

tend to use the drennan pole versions in up to 3lb then either wychwood or ultima virage fly leaders in the higher breaking strains.and don't have a problem with the grinner on any of em.

i've only just started using PVDF (invisiline), so can't really comment on my own personal experiences. I was wondering how others had found the abrasion resistance qualities of PVDF to be compared to mono? Also how much stretch does your average PVDF have if mono has say 22-30%? As regards knots would it be adviseable to use a 'tucked half-blood knot' for tying on swivels?

Reelsoft from Riverge has not let me down in two seasons, used as a hooklength and not as a mainline as it was intended for.As far as I am aware only Leslies and latterly The Tackle Box Kent sell it.Palomar or Grinners have been used by me.

The half blood knot without the tuck works fine for me. It's OK with small swivels and hooks.

For larger swivels I like the Trilene knot.