Fishery Bailiff. how dangerous is it today?

peter crabtree · Nov 20, 2010

The 3 clubs I currently belong to all have excellent, dedicated Bailiffs, but I have been told , first hand , some chilling stories of violence and general aggravation they sometimes encounter on duty.
The EA inspectors I know have a stab vest, and other protection but the volunteer club bailiff usually has none.
Would you put yourself up for it if your club asked you to ?

tigger · Nov 20, 2010

peter crabtree said:
The 3 clubs I currently belong to all have excellent, dedicated Bailiffs, but I have been told , first hand , some chilling stories of violence and general aggravation they sometimes encounter on duty.
The EA inspectors I know have a stab vest, and other protection but the volunteer club bailiff usually has none.
Would you put yourself up for it if your club asked you to ?

I bailiff for one of the larger clubs in the country but to be honest after working pub/club doors etc for 16 + years and some really rough ones it's a stroll in the park...as it where. Fire with fire, as they say

geoffmaynard · Nov 20, 2010

Stab vests? What is the world coming to! Mind you in the states the Florida Fish and Game officers have guns and handcuffs - and use them! (So never try to fish there without a license)

I used to bailiff Fox Pool for a couple of years and once or twice had to ask people to leave. I never had any real problems but that was years ago. Perhaps it's me, but it seems like today's media spur the youth to be more violent than they used to be. The kids read about how bad they are and try to live up to the reputation. Same as in the mods and rockers days.

Fred Bonney · Nov 20, 2010

If I was to baliff, I would certianly make sure that i had the complete backing from the committee first. If they give me the job then they must trust my judgement

Enforcing rules is all well and good, but if the bloke you've collared has mates on the committee, it can all work out to be a waste of effort.

S-Kippy · Nov 20, 2010

I wouldn't do it.Too many idiots about nowadays.

904_cannon · Nov 20, 2010

My club has an ex pro ice hockey goal keeper (if that's what they are called) as a bailiff. A couple have fancied their chances with him, they never tried a 2nd time.

Word is the EA lads are to be replaced with 'special bailiffs' (all part of Cameron's 'Big Society') who will do the license checking leaving what is left of the employed Enforcement staff to do more important expert work.

From the Winter ATr newsletter:

"We believe that the Angling Trust and its members could play a much larger role in the management of fisheries and the development and promotion of angling. It’s what we care about most and we know our local rivers, canals and lakes better than anyone. For example, we think that volunteer bailiffs could once more walk our riverbanks, working alongside the Agency’s highly trained, but highly expensive, enforcement teams.
The volunteers can check licences while the Agency’s staff gets on with the real work of tackling polluters and organised poachers".

I personally know three EA fisheries staff who are to lose their jobs, all good stuff, hey. I still believe we need a good strong organisation representing angling, but I'll play no part in taking away another mans(womans) job!

Paul Boote · Nov 20, 2010

Ah yes, the Big Society bull': volunteer for your chi-chi little local patch and avert your blinkered eyes from the unwanted, less salubrious areas and waters being totally and cynically neglected and going to the wall. Industrial-estate ditches used as now-unmonitored chemical-waste drains soon run into rivers, however......

peter crabtree · Nov 20, 2010

Paul Boote said:
Ah yes, the Big Society bull': volunteer for your chi-chi little local patch and avert your blinkered eyes from the unwanted, less salubrious areas and waters being totally and cynically neglected and going to the wall. Industrial-estate ditches used as now-unmonitored chemical-waste drains soon run into rivers, however......

I totally agree with your point Paul but don't quite see the connnection with the subject.

Probably worthy of a new thread but....

My question was about club bailiffs

Paul Boote · Nov 20, 2010

Connection? They're so tenuous, ephemeral and likely to be spun by headline-seekers these days.

Connection, if any?

One, maybe.

A genial giant on an unsexy river for whom I netted his "I've died and gone to heaven", 11-pound [a fish I knew and had caught, but didn't tell him], PB by a few pounds, barbel the other year. Club bailiff on that same unsexy river for all the old, right, Angling and People reasons, not on account of some spinning politicos' volunteering wishlist.

The bad one · Nov 21, 2010

I bailiff for a very large club several 1000s members I also enjoy it. Only ever had one incident with a stroppy poacher. Who thought he'd stand his ground that he wasn't poaching on our club's length.

Off to the dayticket lengths car park that abuts our length, took the reg numbers of the 3 cars in the car park. A process of elimination on the way back asking the anglers fishing legitimately that length which was their car. Nail his down, phone the police told them who I was, and what he'd said, pointing out he'd caused distress harassment and alarm with threats of violence to me (Criminal Matter BTW not civil) and left it in their hands.

As I passed him on the way back, I politely informed him I'd reported him for the above.
Local Bill must have had nowt on that night, as the owner of the length told me they sat on the car park waiting until he came back to his car and had words with him.
It got even worse for him, as he was in a company van with the name of the co and phone number emblazoned all over it

The Head Bailiff after my report to him, phoned them up, pointing out that they seem to have quite an aggressive employee working for them and given their work was in the domestic service sector, did they know he had such aggressive tendencies.

Put it this way, he's never been back on our length or the DT length since

As the saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat!

904_cannon · Nov 21, 2010

on the other hand...

A few years ago I asked a non member to leave one of my club waters (he'd actually had his membership refused and was fishing with a member)
He became quite aggressive, pushed me over (I've used crutches for several years) and proceeded to beet me round the head and arms with a piece of 2"x2" and finished off with a kick to my kidney.
The police became involved and it eventually went to the local Magistrates Court.
The 'member' who was sat no more than 4ft away in front of his bivvy said he did not see what happened and the guy got off on the basis that there was insufficient evidence (the guy claimed I fell over and received the cuts and scratches in the nearby bramble bushes...and had previously done 6 months for torching his ex wifes house, with her inside)
The magistrates totally ignored the medical evidence that was gathered after spending 4-5 hours at the local hospital A/E dept.

What really hurt was the fact that the member who said he did not see what happened has been a friend for many years, I must have driven him 1000's miles all over the UK, and have got him out of more than a couple of difficult situations over the previous 30 years.

A lesson in that story, never ever be surprised at what people do and say, and in this case do not say!!

richiekelly · Nov 21, 2010

i was a ballif on a local water for 15 years and only twice did i have any bother the first was 2 anglers poaching who became aggresive when i asked them to leave,i phoned the police who when they turned up did them for 2 bald tyres on their van before they left.

the 2nd was with an old severn trent ballif that i caught going onto the water with bloodworm scraping equipment who seemed to think he could do what he wanted because he was a ST baliff and was very aggresive,i pointed out to him that the scraping and taking of bloodworm without the water owners permission was theft,i noted his name from the card he showed me and reported him to the severn trent,never heard anythng else though.

i think that if you are a ballif you have to be diplomatic sometimes and most that know they are poaching are ok,i used to come across kids now and then that hadnt got a permit and never had the heart to ask them to leave as they were always well behaved and im glad to say they still fish today.

tigger · Nov 21, 2010

It's ok being polite but in this day and age politness is often seen as a weakness so i'm polite at first but if the other person doesn't respond in the same manner then my Mr nasty head rises to the occassion. If someone chooses to use violence towards me....they soon wish they hadn't, I ain't a soft touch

. It's great though when you do meet polite/decent people as it makes life so much more pleasant !

richiekelly · Nov 21, 2010

tigger said:
It's ok being polite but in this day and age politness is often seen as a weakness so i'm polite at first but if the other person doesn't respond in the same manner then my Mr nasty head rises to the occassion. If someone chooses to use violence towards me....they soon wish they hadn't, I ain't a soft touch . It's great though when you do meet polite/decent people as it makes life so much more pleasant !

perhaps my bull terrier that i had then was a deterent he was a big lad but wouldnt hurt a fly,the bitch that we have now would go off with anyone that has food to share,typical female!!!!

tigger · Nov 21, 2010

the blanker said:
perhaps my bull terrier that i had then was a deterent he was a big lad but wouldnt hurt a fly,the bitch that we have now would go off with anyone that has food to share,typical female!!!!

Some people tare bullies with a bad brush yet there the most loving dogs there is ...until thery loose there temper then they (some of them) do as they should and look after themselves. My Mr's shows our bullies and judges shows also, infact wev'e got champions world wide now

. I do have one or two dogs and bitches that would stick up for me to the end but some would sit back thinkin of food LOL.

chubby48 · Nov 21, 2010

bailiff

its not a job i woulb do too many psycos out there and all cos they wont buy i fishing licence---especially the cossies

captainbarnacles · Nov 21, 2010

I have been a bailif now for just on 4 years , and can say i have never had any serious bother. I always give people the benefit of the doubt in the first instance and just a polite warining. Then if cought a second time a different matter but always polite unless the person starts getting abusive. Most times its just unhooking mats , lines left in water unatended , litter , that kind of stuff, only had to eject 2 people so far and they went quite piecefull. I think its how you aproach people that makes the difference.

The bad one · Nov 22, 2010

chubberbob said:
I have been a bailif now for just on 4 years , and can say i have never had any serious bother. I always give people the benefit of the doubt in the first instance and just a polite warining. Then if cought a second time a different matter but always polite unless the person starts getting abusive. Most times its just unhooking mats , lines left in water unatended , litter , that kind of stuff, only had to eject 2 people so far and they went quite piecefull. I think its how you aproach people that makes the difference.

Politeness, discretion, diplomacy, being fare and a sense of humour with all members and poachers generally Carry's the day.

One of the members one day, a youngish guy, ex Marine built like a battleship and twice as wide. Said to me when I was carding on the river, are going to the bottom of the length (that's where the dayticket length abuts our) to check those 3 down there on the last two pegs? Yes I said to him I'll come down with you as you'll be out numbered if they're poachers and get stroppy.
This offer was made without any prompting from me by him.

They were poaching and they were very apologetic for it after they'd clocked the Man Mountain stood at the top of the bank saying and doing nothing other than being a presence.
You only get those type of offers from members by being all of the above.

Oh and yes having a Stafford with you generally keeps them in line as well!
Mine to old now for duties, but when he was a younger dog, the sidways glances he'd get from the anglers being carded as he lay down next to me normally chewing and distroying a log he'd found as we went around the waters were very amussing.

Dave Burr · Nov 22, 2010

Turning the whole thread around for a moment, I've had a couple of occasions where club bailiffs have approached me in an officious and aggressive manner.

The first one was in a rough area and I am certain that he used it to bluff his way through no doubt having had one or two difficult situations in the past. But his approach was totally over the top and I let him know it.

Another, no doubt trying to impress the committee man with him, bent my ear in an over the top fashion because I didn't have my club card on me and didn't seem to understand that I could possibly have omitted to put it in my pocket. His limited brain power and poor debating skills made him look a complete idiot and again, I told him so

So it cuts both ways and its always best to start gentle, you can always work your way up the anger ladder as and when.

The bad one · Nov 22, 2010

Dave it does cut both ways but being on a water without your club card in our club is very clear. It states (bold) you must carry your club card at all times when on club waters. Failure to do this will mean you are asked to leave the water.

And here's where discretion enters the equation, and I've heard every excuse under the sun on this subject

I give them two options
1. You can pack up and leave the water as stated in your card.
2. You can go home and get it and I'll make sure your tackle is looked after whilst you're doing it.

Here's several instances from one individual I had happen over a 6 week period.

First time I carded him, he didn't have it with him, said it's in the car.
Well I watch your tackle whilst you go and get it.....Please!
Second time he didn't have on his person it was 300 yards away with the rest of his tackle. Well are we going up to get together then, as I'm going that way!
Third time it's in his car again. "You're not going to make me go back and get it are you?" "You know the script by now.....Yes!"
I asked him why it was never with him? "Well it gets tatty if you carry it about with you." It's a card mate not some manuscript like the Magna Carta.
I also think my mate had him once without it as well. In the car again, sent him on another hike for it

Tough love may be, but after the third time he got the message, as they all do, never forgeting it again.

Fishery Bailiff. how dangerous is it today?

AKA Simon, 1953 - 2022 (RIP)

Banned

Content Editor

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

AKA Simon, 1953 - 2022 (RIP)

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member