trent rocks and mussels

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matt thomas

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I tend to use leadcore for close in work but worry about it not doing its job when tight to a feeder or lead when out further in the faster water,but do i put a shockleader on the first few feet ?
if so what products do you suggest and how do you tie it to your mainline?
or do i just use tubing for about 3 or 4 feet?
i am fishing a new stretch of the trent on sunday and i don't want to leave line in any fish if they run me over rocks or gravel bars.
for information i am using 12lb big game mainline and either either esp sinklink or double t hooklinks or if its bright i will use IQ fluoro hooklinks
thanks Matt
 
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matt thomas

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this is purely precautionary as my father in law lost a fish on rocks so its better to be safe than sorry,also what knot would you use to attach to mainline?
 
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Matt Brown

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Matt, I've been using leadcore about 3ft in length but I've also done well wilth 18lb Krystonite and even some 30lb bright green seas mono once!

If your check your line after each cast and it's getting damaged then you need a snag leader. If it's not then you don't!

There's loads of suitable knots. Adam showed me the Maher knot (I think that's what it's called - someone on the Carp forum will know) and that seems very strong and neat.
 
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sash

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Why use leadcore feeder fishing the Trent, surely the leadcore would be lifted up off the bottom however much bow is put into the line and thereby more easily spook fish?

Or am I missing the point?
 
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Matt Brown

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Sash, the leadcore gets pinned down by the flow. Get in the water and have a look.

The only thing that worries me is with a huge bow the leadcore my well leave the rig pointing downstream, alongside the hooklink. That may well spook the fish.
 
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sash

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In 10 to 12ft of fast flowing water, 25 yards from the bank, amongst a load of rocks and other snags??

In a couple of feet, 5 yards from ther bank maybe but in a similar scenario to the above I'd be very, very surprised.

If the idea is to pin the 3/4ft of line above the feeder to the bottom then why not use a flying backlead stopped using a float stop? Much safer than leadcore especially in snaggy areas where you WILL lose tackle.

Have you noticed any difference to your catches when using leadcore on the Trent because I personally haven't?
 
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matt thomas

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this is the problem,i don't use leadcore for far out work because of that issue with them being lifted off the bottom only down the edge under trees and bushes when i don't need to target the middle of the river,it is not to keep it pinned to the bed i just want security that it will be abrasion resistant when playing a fish close in
incidently i do better down the edge since i have been using leadcore which is a tip i picked up of matt b at the trent fish in,it is excellent for snaggy areas but its thick and i just don't have confidence in it further out.it must stick out like a sore thumb if its off the bottom
 
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Matt Brown

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Sash, I haven't noticed a change in my catches since using leadcore, but I don't have the worry of checking the last few feet of line and re-tying my rigs.

I've tried various backleads. The problem with using backleads at a reasonable distance (more than a rod length or two) is that the backlead needs to be at least half the weight of the main lead to prevent tangles during casting.

I've found that the backlead can dislodge when debris catches the line, or simply just from the flow putting pressure on the line. The momentum of the backlead moving can pull the main lead out of position.

I've not tried it yet but I fancy using an overly heavy main lead and the new heavy Gardner flying back leads.

The other problem with backleads in snaggy areas is that the more line they pin down, the more line is passing over the rocks and Swan Mussels.
 
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Matt Brown

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Matt, have a look at leadcore in the margins. It's thick but it blends in really well.

The more you use it the more sediment and therefore colouration it take on making it even more camo!
 
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matt thomas

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tricky one this,if your going to use a backlead then why not use a longer hooklength(say four feet)and place shots on the line to pin it down or tungsten putty that way you get to tighten up to the lead and its four feet away from your rig
i have also tried anchor and nash backleads but they need to be about 4oz!!
 
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matt thomas

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yeah matt,i use it on the trent in those pegs i told you about and on the teme because if they take you through submerged snags you dont lose em!
on the gravel bottom they are superb but down the edge or upto 10ft out i fish with the rod tip at water level and i dont tighten up hard so it all lays down nicely
its a bit hard to do that at 40 yards in fast water!!
right then i'm going to go for a long hooklength and pin it down with putty ,i will use a coated hooklength and strip away the last foot that way if i get taken over rocks it will be the coating that takes the hammer
 
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sash

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That's what I'm talking about Matt, flying backleads, not the ones that are clipped to the line.

Lets just say I'm rather wary of advocating leadcore use on snaggy rivers such as the Trent having seen how many anglers rig it for use on stillwaters, ie completely unsafe. Given a small river with wary fish and no great flow (eg Ouse) I'd have no problems using leadcore and backleads (even 2) but I just don't think it works as we believe on big rivers.
 
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NottmDon

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Might be the Mahseer knot you meant Matt, good example of it in one of the John Wilson books. I use backleads on the Trent and Kryston mainline with a lower breaking strain hooklink finished with a safe rig. Have been having a play with leadcore and one or two alternate hook/rig materials. I must admit its not the easiest of materials to work with when you first try splicing it but I am sure it as possibilites when used in a sensible manner.Hooklengths I usually go with flurocarbon and check the hooklength and the hook after each cast as Matt does. I've never known a time when so much crap as been floating down the Trent like it as been this season in Nottingham, and thats despite( or because of?) the low water levels.I tend to use heavy leads as a matter of coarse on the stretches I fish because it stops me losing them! I want leads to hit bottom and hold as theres so many rocks etc that the smallest movement of the lead will ensure (almost allways) that youll get snagged.
 
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Matt Brown

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Don, it is the Mahin Knot. I can't find a picture on the web, but there's a good description on the link.

Sash, I know what you mean by flying backleads. I've been experimenting all sorts of backleads from coffin leds, running bombs, clip on ones and the Mahin Knot

I've been using the Mahin Knot for much of my stillwater fishing. I use them anywhere there's no weed.

Matt, I've not use the attachment as I've not been to the Trent for a couple of weeks. I'm back after a beast from the Don and I only need banksticks there.

The propblem with a long hooklink is that if the Barbel are feeding in such a manner that they aren't roaring off with the bait you'll never see a bite. There's a great article in this month's CAT by Tony Miles on the subject.

Plus long looklinks are a liability in tight swims. They do have their uses though!
 
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Matt Brown

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Oops. Those last two links are supposed to say Gardner Flying Backleads and link to a picture of Gardner Flyin Backleads.

Graham, is there any chance you can mend this - you know, so I don't look stupid?
 
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paul williams 2

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Matt......i'm not trying to nitpik and i've had a beer and can't grasp the Mahin knot from the link, so bear with me!
I can't personally fish with a knot i don't trust in all situations,even if it means not using a particular rig, so why won't you use the knot in weed?
 
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paul williams 2

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Mornin Matt......my eyes and brain are coming round shortly! ;)
 
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matt thomas

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well ,i need'nt have bothered worrying as i blanked anyway!!thats two days on the trot and the first times this year.
i ended up using some fine tubing on the rig but it was so low and clear i could see the rocks anyway so cast carefully.
please rain rain and more rain needed to give it some colour
 
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