Hooks direct to swivels

Murray Rogers · Sep 5, 2005

Have been reading a few Carp (ratfish) mags recently on account of the fact that i seem to be incapable of catching anything of any great size, so thought that a few pearls of wisdom might be gleaned from within!!

Loads of interesting and thought inspiring stuff was within, baits, rigs etc, but one that realy my eye was a rig. Well end rig to be more precise. It was explained (with photographs) that this rig was designed for the use of pop-ups with big fish in mind.

It looked to me like a bent hook sort of set up until I looked closer, and read the article.

What you have here is a long shank hook which is not connected directly to the line but via a swivel, IE, the hook is passed through one end of the eye of a swivel and the other end of the swivel is then tied to the hook link.

What you end up with looks a bit awkward but its hooking capabilities are obvious,,,,AWESOME.

What worries me is the fact that once hooked in the mouth it appears that the hook would have to behave as a BENT HOOK. I have not tried this set up so cannot comment from experiance, but i have used the bent hook (an old Dognobbler) and would not like to do so again after seeing the consequences.

Anybody on here got any information on this rig at all?
Does it work (im sure it will)
Is it safe?

Little Stu! · Sep 5, 2005

It does work and it is safe. superb turning qualities and would not act as the original bent hook would based on its axle being a swivel, where exactly was the swivel on the bent hook?

no issues with it in my book Murray!

Murray Rogers · Sep 5, 2005

The swivel is shown sitting up against the eye of the hook. With the hook upright (cos its got a bouyant bait on) when the fish is hooked then surely the point of pressure is to the swivel???? which in turn must give pressure to the hook, which is at an un natural angle because the eye of the swivel is pulling against the eye of the hook?

Or am I missing something?

Little Stu! · Sep 5, 2005

The blowback of any carp ejecting a bait takes less than a second and comes with such force that unless the material (hook and swivel) are perhaps welded together than the least part of resistant is the join between the hook and the swivel hence the complete opposite of a bent hook situation can occur.

That?s whether its a buoyant bait or not, based on its irrelevant once that blowback pressure kicks in from the carp trying to expel the bait.

Great thought process and provoking thread though Murray.

Warren 'Hatrick' (Wol) Gaunt · Sep 6, 2005

Dont use the rig where lots of small Carp are present, with the thrashing about the smaller fish tend to do their mouths can get really ****ed up.

Big Rik · Sep 6, 2005

the modern re-invention of it is called the 360 degree rig.

been around for a while

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 6, 2005

That's the rig I've seen Rik, as Murry described the angle looks a little severe and I wouldn't be comfortable with the stress placed directly on either the shank or the swivel due to this, but the hook rotates very easily and apparently it's very good at finding a hold in the bottom lip regardless of where the fish takes it from.

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 6, 2005

Never seem to get your name right do I Murray, I always seem to leave a letter out....... and not always the same one, Sorry

)

Murray Rogers · Sep 6, 2005

No problem Wodney,

Iv'e been giving this some thought and iv'e even tied up a couple of rigs. I'm sure i'm wrong but if the rig is called the 360 thingy, then i assume that the hook is believed to move through a full circle if needed to? in which case the hook could be facing back towards the main line when taken by a fish and because of the mechanics of the rig the fish should be hooked in the top lip? some of the time depending on which direction the fish approached the bait.

I'm trying me best, but i'm just not happy with the way this rig looks and the way it looks like it might perform.

Has anybody got first hand experiance of the rig?, if so can you tell me if the fish were hooked in the bottom or top lip or both? and was the hook hold safe looking?

Murray Rogers · Sep 6, 2005

By top and bottom, i don't mean at the same time, but individually.

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 6, 2005

Wodney tsk

)

Murray, (first time as well,not bad eh?) remember the rig would be used with a pop up so the hook is able to turn freely on the take, so regardless of the way it's facing at that time the extra weight of the front of the hook and bait pulling the shank forward and down ???????????????? I think.

Murray Rogers · Sep 6, 2005

Not if the hook was facing back towards the main line Rodders and the fish took from the other end, then the hook would be going in bend first with the eye of the swivel pulling against the eye of the hook forcing the hook to pull backwards and thus offering its pointy bit to the top lip of the fish!!!!!

Look, I know this is a load of old cobblers and all that, cos it's seudo science, but the rig does still look iffy!!!!

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 6, 2005

" i assume that the hook is believed to move through a full circle if needed to? "

I'm not sure what you mean by the hook moving, the swivel is the pivot point where it's tied to the line, it's attached to a stiff hooklength material and the hair is tied to the bend of the hook rather than the back of the shank (knotless knot style). when the bait is taken in the point of the hook is pulled down and so the swivel twists to accommodate this.

once again, I think???????????

but I could be wrong.

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 6, 2005

Sorry,
I was typing the above and trying to see it in my minds eye and put it all in the post. your reply appeared as I submited the last one.

I see what you mean about the hook facing away from the fish (towards the line) but wouldn't the stiff link help sort that out as well as enhansing the pivot point?

Murray Rogers · Sep 6, 2005

I think my problem is the 360 bit, cos when the hook eye is up against the swivel eye and you then pull against the hook, i cant see that the hook now is able to turn at all because the two eyes are now together and so will inhibit any free movement, so at the point when the hook (and swivel) are picked up surely this is the way the hook will remain?. It could be pointing upwards, downwards or to either side, but but rotating through 360.

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 6, 2005

I think that may be where you're getting it wrong Murray, it's not the hook turning within the swivel which gives the 360 pivot, it's the opposite end of the swivel (the end attached to the line that pivots, it's the angle created by the pop up on the bend of the hook and the hook going through the swivel this creates the offset and encourages the point to turn.

Although I would think a combi link with a suple material at the swivel might help if it was popped up to the start of the stiff material?

Murray Rogers · Sep 6, 2005

I'm gonna give it a go.
Will try the rig on 1 rod until i catch (if i catch), and will let you know Rodders what the outcome is, but i think in me own head that the outcome will be an iffy hook hold and a bent hook if the fish pulls hard enough.

All i gotta do now is get a ratfish on it!

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 6, 2005

My fear with the rig would be either the bent hook or the eye popping on the swivel from the angled pressure.

Look forward to your report Murray, it could just as easily be the next big rig on your venue

)

Tight lines.

Big Rik · Sep 7, 2005

that's the problem, people see one rig as the answer to all problems (that's not a dig at either Marruy or Rednoy) and it's just another rig.

If it was that good and the answer to all problems, would I be using other things and continually experimenting?

Little Stu! · Sep 7, 2005

errrr...yes you would Rik, coz like me you'd be then looking for the next big thing!

D-Rigs witha swivel work the same way Murray (360 turn) so any fish can come at the rig from any direction. It's what hapens (turning ability once its sucked in that counts in my eyes)

Hooks direct to swivels

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