Absolutely top class article Jeff

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Sep 20, 2005

9 pound carp taking 10 minutes?

I can get out such a fish in less than 2 minutes on the right rod and line.

And the banning of hair rigs etc. Hair rigs cause the least amount of damage to fish.

And don't forget barbless hooks. They cause an enormous amount of damage.

I have fished a few commercial fisheries in my life and where they have had a barbless hook rule, the mouths of the fish have been horrid.

And then you get the rule about hook sizes. In some commercial waters you are expected the land double figure fish on hooks no larger that a 14.

What a load of utter b.....ks!!!

And Jeff you are right about the names on poles. It really is a laugh a minute and such names will only ever appeal to the bloody brain dead.

Good article mate.

Baz · Sep 20, 2005

I think the term to bully a fish gets used in a number of contexts, and this could be part of the problem.

To bully a fish to stop it getting into a snag.
Or is this hook and hold?

To bully a fish out of a weed bed.
Or is this scull dragging them out?

To bully a fish in open water to get it in as quickly as possible,
or to play a fish in open water to tire it out.
There seems to be some confusement between the two, going on past threads.

Some good points as usual Jeff, I totally agree with the nameing of poles etc.

Bob Roberts · Sep 20, 2005

Jeff

I've just tried to email you privately but you have no details in your profile...

Bob

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Sep 20, 2005

Now I have done enough pole fishing in my life to say one thing. You cannot stop a hard fighting fish in its tracks the second you hook it like you can with a rod and line.

Remember one thing. The minute a fish gets moving you are having to deal with momentum.

It is possible to land very big fish in seconds if you know what you are doing and are able to wield a rod and line efficiently. You have absolutely no control with a pole when the fish decides to run to the other side of the lake.

The longer you play a fish, the more the hook bites deeper.

Tiring a fish out? Don't agree with that. Rather dictate the fight to the fish and you will land that fish when it's mesmerised, not tired out.

Bryan Baron 2 · Sep 20, 2005

It been sai on before also but using 2 3/4Ib T/C rods with 12Ib line to catch fish up to low doubles.These are people are just bullying them out.

Poles with names like Terminator. Why name a pole after a all out killing machine.

Once again its match anglers who fish like this. Then when its torn there lip off they cram them in a keepnet. Why can they not fish a points system only retaining specimen fish for weighing for extra points weighed by a runner on the bank as with some sea matches.

Sorry gone of on a tangent appologies.

Simon Kelshaw · Sep 20, 2005

You mean like Fox Warrior Rods and Shimano Tribal rods etc etc, and im confused, you read threads and advice on going over gunned for barbel, and that its ok to bully the barbel, naturally this will not be termed bullying it will be "as fast as possible" on 15lb line and 1.5lb test curve rod, hehe thats not bullying!

The article smacks of a typical rod purist once again having a go at pole anglers and muddy puddle chuckers.

Si

Bryan Baron 2 · Sep 20, 2005

I have had Barbel go on 50yrd runs with 12Ib line and 1.75Ib rods but the clutch could slip if this was on a pole what would give nothing to give except the hook hold. I do not use poles because they are no good on the rivers i fish. I have nothing against them and yes some Carp rods are named in the same way as poles.

Malc Bason · Sep 20, 2005

Good article Jeff and some excellent points raised!

It sickens me to see carp (or whatever species) with such mouth damage. It is so unnecessary, and as you say, caused entirely because there are some amongst us who have to get the fish in the keepnet as quickly as possible!

I live literally 300 yards from Drayton Ressy, but cannot bring myself to fish there for the reasons above.

The place was fine and the carp in it fine when it was owned by British Timken; when Britis Waterways took it over and turned it into a match venue - the rest is history!

Big Swordsy :O) · Sep 20, 2005

I have a top kit that will stop a ten pound carp in its tracks it is the equivilent to a 50 elastic (double 25) and I can land carp faster on a pole than a rod and line.

I did a good few years where nothing but a pole was used by myself.

But it aint big and it aint clever!

Nice article Mr.Woodhouse

Neneman Nick · Sep 20, 2005

ref damage to carp mouths,i was fishing an old farm pond on sunday for its large inhabitants---10lb line straight through,size 8 hook,pin reel on an old lindop rapide rod.i was fishing close to a reed bed and snags,casting to the clouds of silt that the carp were making.
i hooked and landed one of about 5lbs and when i got it on my unhooking mat,i was quite shocked and disturbed about the amount of blood coming from the hook hold.it wasnt a pleasant sight.....
is this because i was using barbless hooks???
i`ve often heard that barbed hooks cause less damage...is this correct??? and if so why???

Bryan Baron 2 · Sep 20, 2005

Nick the Barb stops the hook moving around. It only as to be a micro barb. I usually crush the barb down on some hooks.

Neneman Nick · Sep 20, 2005

surely it would benefit fishing to have some sort of official report/study conducted on the issue???
why do fisheries insist on a barbless hooks only policy if theyre doing more damage than good???

Wolfman Woody · Sep 20, 2005

"The article smacks of a typical rod purist once again having a go at pole anglers and muddy puddle chuckers."

Oh Simon, you really don't know me and yet you make these wild assumptions.

True I only have one pole now, a 14m Daiwa Black Shadow, and I do own twenty something other rods, but if someone suggested going pole fishing tomorrow for some tasty little carp in a not-quite-so muddy puddle, I'd be off like a shot.

But - I would be armed with just a 12 elastic, probably use the 10 or even a 6 to begin with, and every carp would be played quickly and without bullying. It's the way I learned my pole fishing over ten years ago with members of the A4 match team and the top anglers in our club.

The Monk · Sep 20, 2005

an excellent article Jeff hit a few home truths there mate

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Sep 20, 2005

Barbless hooks? Dangerous things make no mistake.

Barrie Rickards is the man that has done more investigation into the modern angling evil that is barbless hooks.

He is the most qualified to tell us why. I hope we see an article from him soon on this suject.

Baz · Sep 20, 2005

Whichever way the self acclaimed guru?s want to pretty the situation up, if a fish is determined to reach a snag and it can?t be turned by gentle pressure, then that fish is being bullied against its will to either stop or swim in another direction.
Is there anybody on here who can honestly say that they have never been in this situation?
Or do all the specimens give up once they know they have been hooked?

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Sep 20, 2005

A big fish moving towards a snag?

Hoik them is what I say. And get side strain on them.

In some cases you should pull the fish towards the snag. They tend to go the other way.

I have never believed in pussyfooting with fish or giving fish "swimming lessions" as Frank Guttfield so aptly put it.

EC · Sep 20, 2005

'the modern angling evil that is barbless hooks.'

FFS!

Good article Jeff!

tom riordan · Sep 20, 2005

Another well put together article Jeff, absorbing stuff. I dont fish for carp in anger or pole fish so I cannot comment on anything to do with either, but I was shocked at the damaged mouths of the fish, I have never had the misfortune to witness anything so barbaric, Ime afraid it is another nail in the coffin regarding carp fishing for me personally, and I totally agree with you about the chavving up of fishing tackle just to flog it to the mindless morons who (mis)use it, I hope you get some straight answers from the manufactures you have approached and I will gladly boycott/petition them if it is necessary for them to see sense in this issue. How long before we get the bunkerbuster rod anyone? Hooks, it has always bemused me why we seem to be the only country using barbless hooks as a rule in our fishing, but the powers that be know better, I suppose in a couple of years I will be forced to use a keepnet when I am fishing just because a name has forced them onto us.

Newfie's Drool · Sep 21, 2005

Well done Jim, that's a lovely fish to catch.
Jeff I'm sure you will catch soon,I have a feeling your next fish will be something special.

I'll stand by Jeff on all he has said and I totally agree that manufacturers should consider more adapt names for poles.

I don't know what else to say as the pictures just upset me every time I look at them.

Absolutely top class article Jeff

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