Barrie's Latest Article

I was surprised to read Barrie Rickards comments about stillwater barbel in his latest article. I rate Barrie's writing highly. He's intelligent, articulate and above all analytical. Being a scientist he rarely comments on hearsay, perfering to back up his statements with facts.

However, in his latest piece he comments:

"Since I wrote that last sentence I heard of a stillwater where barbel have bred successfully and thrive in good condition. It doesn?t change my argument or position on this at the moment, but I?m always open to persuasion."

Where is this water? Can we see the evidence? After all it is groundbreaking stuff - a first indeed.

It's not the first time I've heard of breeding and thriving stillwater barbel, but like the baby in the microwave it is proving pretty difficult to track these fish down. Didn't Keith Arthur come out with a similar quote and retract it later?

As for Barrie's comments that breeding isn't the be all and end all, what about migration. Wild barbel will migrate up to 10 kilometres per night. I have uncovered evidence of barbel in a large European river travelling 200 kilometres and Yorkshire barbel that migrate between the Nidd and Ouse.

Can stillwater barbel do this, I ask? And I don't think fish moving between the River Wye and the River Severn and a certain midlands commercial fishery (to name but one) counts.

What next, wild salmon in carp filled muddy puddles?

Interesting one Bob.

I have known many of the Barbus species do fairly well in still water but when they had the spawning urge they went up the feeder streams to find fast water running over gravel. Here I am talking about big lakes and reservoirs.

Its the same with the salmonids too.

They need running water flowing over gravel to breed.

But I would be the last person to be dogmatic about this. Let's face it, in nature, wonders never cease.

Bob, would you be opposed to barbel being put into large clear water gravel pits or is it just the muddy puddles.

Bob, Barrie doesn't have readily available web access but I've sent him your comments and will post his reply when one arrives.

Proff Barry Rickards states

"Since I wrote that last sentence I heard of a stillwater where barbel have bred successfully and thrive in good condition. It doesn?t change my argument or position on this at the moment, but I?m always open to persuasion."

Herr General Swordsy

The ethical cleansing and PROPAGANDA General for the stillwater barbel society.

Replies

" You did'nt think I had gone away did you folks? I will not rest until the barbel is a shadow of it's former self! Tamed, named, modified, genetically altered, colour enhanced and used as an elastic testing beast of burden with all its mysterique and magic destroyed and washed away in the beautiful uber stocked turgid waters of our wonderfull commercial fisheries!"

Herr general Swordsy

John,

I'd rather turn your question round. It's not so much why shouldn't we put barbel into stillwaters, it's all down to why should we want to in the first place?

Why introduce barbel when carp are better suited, grow bigger and fight just as hard and for longer in many cases in stillwaters?

I have caught stillwater barbe from a number of waters and haven't exactly been impressed by their fighting qualties.

Can anyone give me a good reason FOR stocking barbel? If the answer is nothing more than variety then bring on the bass, zander, nase, mahseer, catfish, pumpkinseed, taimen and anything else you can think of.

Chub do thrive, survive and breed successfully in stillwaters, especially canals, where the stocking density is high enough. They do very well in some rivers where there is precious little flow, too. I don't see a need for them in commercial fisheries though.

In my view I think commercial fisheries would be better off if they contained nothing but carp, carp and more carp. What's the point of deliberately stocking what match anglers don't really want to catch?

Graham,

Thanks for passing on my comments to Barrie. I await his response with interest.

I know the water, and I know where Barrie heard of it.
The water is Lymmvale in Cheshire. It is deep, streamfed and a fantastic specimin water. In fact the record Golden Orfe was caught there by the bailiff, Mike Wilkinson.
Mike wrote to the Anglers Mail a couple of months ago and was star letter, pointing out that barbel do breed successfully in there. The "proof" is that a number of fish were stocked there a good number of years ago and now there are several year classes of small fish.
Mike believes it is because Lymmvale is very deep in places, therefore always having cool water in there, and it is also springfed.
I have seen and caught these barbel so know this is true. They are in perfect nick.

"Why introduce barbel when carp are better suited, grow bigger and fight just as hard and for longer in many cases in stillwaters?" -
Best argument I heard yet!

And I'd personally like to see every river carp dragged out of the Thames and chucked in the nearest gravel pit. Yes, I know they are a river fish, sort of, but I'd rather the rivers were full of dace and bream and perch etc....

Dear Bob Roberts,

Due to increased work committments, I would like to formally tender my resignation as Secretary to the Stillwater Barbel Society.

I have enjoyed my tenure immensely under your outstanding (and outspoken) leadership, but I feel it is time to move on. I would like to thank you for originally gifting me the platform from which to further the aims of the Society and would like to propose Barrie Rickards as my successor. I am sure he will do a grand job and follow the strict ethical basis on which the Society proudly stands.

I will, of course, still be available to contribute any help I can, albeit strictly on an ad hoc basis.

Wishing you all the best for the future, keep up the good work,

Ossie.

To be fair to Barrie Rickards he does state that he prefers his barbel fishing in rivers and that if barbel in stillwaters are healthy and successful he doesn't see it as a problem.

That is a whole world from saying its ok under any circumstances or that he approves of it. If barbel are fit and healthy and able to breed in certain stillwaters who are we to say that we know better than nature. All waters are not suitable for barbel and I think most anglers would agree on that but thats not to say that some waters aren't suitable because it seems Lymmvale appears to be one of those suitable habitats.

Personally, I too would prefer to catch my barbel in the river like most people.

This is one debate that will never be resolved. It's about personal choice.
Some anglers will walk miles along rivers in search of barbel, others want to park behind their swim and catch barbel.
Right or wrong that is how it is!
As long as there is a demand for stillwater barbel, fishery owners will aim to meet that demand.
I will be walking miles, peering into the water, mesmerised, as the barbel glide across the gravel, but thats my choice.
Who knows, when I get old (if I do?) I might seek barbel at a commercial? I truly hope not!
If it does, the Magic will be gone!

Graham (W) - I'm not having a dig at Barrie, far from it, I want to know and understand more about the stillwater barbel phenomenon. It's because it is Barrie that I've asked the question. Barrie does not normally repeat tittle-tattle. He invariably has facts to back up his statements.

I'm not familiar with Lymm Vale as a fishery (aware of those fantastic orfe though) but a stream fed water is obviously a more likely candidate to produce the UK's first authenticated stillwater (naturally) bred barbel, especially if the fish have access to the stream, gravel redds, etc.

The day they start spawning on de-oxygenated clay slurry and several inches of excreted pellet residue is the day I'll take up golf.

Bob
Mike Wilkinson has seen them spawning and it is not in any feeder stream - they are all underwater springs - I should have made that clear. This makes for crystal clear water at all times. The bottom composition seems to be a mixture of sand and clay.
I know Mike and will see if I can contact him and get him to post his findings on here. He is a very knowledgeable and capable angler and, as waterkeeper and bailiff, he spends an unhealthy amount of time on there. Watch this space.

Barbel in stillwaters is like dropping a polar bear into the Sahara Desert what next the grayling

Boss article!

I suppose when it comes to finding habitats for species, man know best, its a great shame nature has to interfere from time to time.

Hi, at the request of Blunderer I have registered on this site to give you the run down on the situation with the barbel in Lymmvale. Firstly, the last stocking was with some farm bred fingerlings 12 years ago, no further stockings have taken place since, nor are any further stockings intended under the current stocking policy, as far as I am aware. The first time I saw barbel actively spawning was in 1996, but no resulting young barbel appeared in the following years, then in 2002 I witnessed 3 of 8 barbel caught weighing just 1lb to 2lb when the smallest being caught in the lake at that time were usually around 4 1/2lb, these fish were in stunning condition and they did look like young fish not stunted 10 year old fish. Then this year I recorded 4 or 5 barbel from the catch returns at weights of just 1lb, suggesting there had been another successful spawning. The number of adult barbel in the lake is hard to estimate, but I would guess there to be around 30-40 and I am not suggesting for one minute that successful spawning takes place every year, but from the two years that young fish were caught it would appear that they have managed it at least twice. Neither am I suggesting that there are large numbers of young barbel, but there are it would seem very small groups of them growing on healthily. The lake itself is just under 6 acres in size with an average depth of 14ft, it is fed by underground springs and is crystal clear for much of the year, although it is a sand pit it was lined with limestone when the lake was set up over 30 years ago to adjust the ph levels and so has some areas of very stony bottom, there is also the area which used to be the road when it was a quarry, this was constructed from tons of gravel and stone and it was over these hard stony areas that I have witnessed the barbel spawning. I myself fish the water for specimen tench and chub and would rather catch my barbel from a river, but if one as healthy as these comes along whilst fishing there then they are always welcome.

Straight from the horses mouth.

Good post Mike!

I can't believe there has been no further comment on this thread.

I will take it we are all agreed that barbel can do OK in some stillwaters!

Case dismissed.

errr.........nope.