SECRET SOCIETY

What are your views on a decision by the Barbel Society to restrict visibility of its message board to members only? Previously you had to be a member to post comments on there but any visitor could read it however I see that Steve Pope has posted the following message on BFW:

?After much discussion yesterday at a committee meeting attended by over a dozen people, the decision was made to make our forum a members only benefit.?

Well, I can?t say exactly how many ?over a dozen? is but had it been 17 then Steve might well have said, ?over 15?. Let?s be generous and say fourteen, nay let?s make that 19. I guess we can safely say that it wasn?t twenty. So it required less than 10 votes to implement such draconian decision.

Ten anonymous votes out of supposedly 1400 members is deemed enough to influence the Society and shut out the eyes of the world.

Four questions:

Will this increase awareness of what the Society does?

Will it provoke an upsurge in membership?

Is this democracy in action?

Are they trying to hide something?

Ironic, isn?t it, that Chairman Steve is quite happy to post on an open site about the actions the Society has taken. Ironic too, that the Society will look to make announcements here and on other sites to promote the various meetings they hold up and down the country and also to promote the Annual Conference.

Do not be put off posting your views here because a few vocal members of the Society will inevitably try and shout you down with cries of, ?What?s it got to do with you??

It has everything to do with you. You are their target customer. The Society wants your pounds in it?s coffers, be that as a guest at meetings or actually by joining.

Please tell me if I?m wrong but wasn?t this veil of secrecy initially mooted after a few poachers appeared on the riverbank opposite a certain River Trent fishery?

So we now have a secret society and all the mistrust that will generate. Should a decision as potentially damaging as this have been put to the entire membership? Or at least to those who are registered to post on its web site? Or to conference?

Act in haste and you will repent at your leisure. Sorry guys, I think this was a bad move, not so much for what you have done but the way it was done.

Yes Bob you are indeed wrong again on a number of points in your post

And I'm sure you could have shared them with us...

Paul do you not think that closing the forum to potential members eyes will reduce the traffic to the site?

Surely the purpose of having an open section to your site is to attract visitors. As it this seldom, if ever, gets updated with anything worth reading. Consequently you will rapidly lose that trade.

The forum attracted visitors. The challenge to the Society is to convert those visits into members.

I cannot see for the life of me why you have taken this decision to close the whole forum. By all means have a restricted section for members only where you may discuss member specific business. Hide your reports on Society owned fisheries, too, but please don't alienate your potential customer base.

Can't be good for the advertisers or potential either.

Seeing as you responded so quickly, and I thank you respectfully for that, care to answer the questions raised in your capacity as a leading Society official.

Please treat this as an oportunity to sell the Society to new members rather than an invitation to a slanging match.

After all, you surely aren't surprised that I and others will question the decision.

After many years of serving on the committee of various fishing clubs, (not in this country) I would have thought that a decision like this one would have to be taken on a vote at a general meeting.

Not only that but there would also have to be a quorum present.

Ron

Hope it doesn't come across that I'm inferring the decision taken wasn't within the authority of those who took it.

I'm certain they were absolutely within their rights.

It may appear that I have something against the Society. I haven't in principle. I'd love to see it flourish and grow - providing it stands for things I feel I can support. If I challenge the Society it is because in my opinion I feel they have done something wrong.

Lately I have been accused of doing this aggressively and negatively and maybe there's an element of truth in that. Trouble is, the meek might be set to inherit the earth but they'll change nothing in angling!

Why do we come here? Because it's boistrous, energetic, vibrant, noisy, challenging and above all INTERESTING. Why is BFW ten times busier than the BS site?

In the space of a lunchtime I've read posts by Messrs Truscott, Burr and Ponsford, each challenging the Society's decision. This isn't me versus Paul, or Fred, or CP or T2C, the implications are far reaching.

It's the first step towards an insular Society and if that is the goal, fine. You cannot expect to achieve exponential growth in that scenario.

The decision to make the bulletin board accessible to members only for both viewing and posting was not taken lightly.

All the pros and cons were put forward and after a lengthy discussion the decision to close to view was made; now bearing in mind the make up of our committee that really should be good enough,these are men more than capable of grasping the important points and making up their own minds.

The main website will be updated on a far more regular basis and any major news or press statements will be carried on the main site.

The forum will now be a member?s only benefit; after all it is their money that pays for it.

The Society is not a secret society, never has been, never will.

There are many open forums available, so where?s the problem.

If you want to participate, you become a member; it really is as simple as that.

I take it Bob you?re the type of bloke who likes to listen in on other people?s conversations, perhaps you have the mobile on and conduct conversations for everyone to hear, or drive along the road with the windows open and radio blaring.

Of course you?re not, so it should not be too difficult to understand one of the reasons that convinced enough people to arrive at this decision.

Bob, I can not and do not speak for the BS but just for you here are MY opinions on your questions.


Will this increase awareness of what the Society does?......No, nor will it detract as the whole of the site is still open, just the forum is closed.

Will it provoke an upsurge in membership? .......No because it wasnt designed to do so.

Is this democracy in action?....No, is the BS committee in action.

Are they trying to hide something?.....No, like what, do you know something I dont?



And for your information Mike Berridge called for the forum to be closed 18 months ago, nowt to do with Sutton that was the river reports bit. Im fed up of telling you to pay more attention Bob, take a detention.

Lots of folks seem to like making a fuss over nowt these days, a sad reflection I think.

Bob
The site will be overhauled in the near future. It will be updated regularly in the areas that non members can look in on. It is not the whole site that is closed just the members forum.

This site and such as BFW are free to join. Is this why they are so busy. If these sites were subscription then I would think they would not have as many hits.

What do you think.

Anymore questions Bob ?

Bob. I am not a committee member - so I can put my own personal views forward.

The only area of the site that is now not available will be the bulletin board. All other aspects will be available for potential members to view, including aspects of fish welfare, joining news,junior news and the Societies aims.

There are many benefits of joining the Society.

1/ Being with many likeminded anglers to share thoughts and advance methods and tactics. Many life long friends have been made by many through this facility.

2/ Receiving an excellent magazine and frequent informative newletters.

3/ Being able to Attend the Conference and Barbel Society Regional Meetings at very reduced rates

4/ Being able to contribute to a bone-fide Organisation that contributes to knowledge and welfare of the fish we specialise in.

5/ Being able to fish well managed, not over busy, prime barbel rivers at great value

Just a few of the benefits. Another benefit of Membership is now the opportunity to be able to share and be more open with the BB between members who have paid for the privilege.

In terms of engaging new members, can you honestly say the BB, would have contributed any significant numbers? NO.

More likely those who had FREE access might now join to avail themselves of the facilty.

I terms of certain people criticising the Society, thats their right and their view, one you seem all too frequently to avail yourself of lately. And thats a real shame.

Graham

Oh sorry just re read your first post.

No we are not trying to hide anything just another advantage to being a member.

I am sure people are aware of what we do. You can still look at the society site to see what we do.

If people wish to join then they can do.

Yes it was democratic, everyone on the committee had a say.

Can I view, but not post, the DVSG forum please Bob.

I pleased to see that a number of BS members have replied to your post Bob, and I might add with some very sensible comments.

Perhaps it's me, but you seem to have this personal vendetta against the Barbel Society for some reason. You are always venting your angst against them. Why?

As I have also posted on another site, there are many benefits in joining the society and the forum is just but one of those.

I'm quite sure you wouldn't join a fishing club solely because it had a forum? So why will anyone else. There is far more going on than that. People devote a huge amount of their time in running the Society. There are lots of regional meetings, fish-ins, junior days and of course conferences. A fantastic opportunity to share information and socialise with like minded anglers. Plus some of their political aims to try and make sure that Barbel are handled carefully and protected for the future.

I think perhaps your pesonal views have made you so blinkered you rant for the sake of ranting.

No offence intended, just a mere observation Bob.

Steady Nathan. ;o)

Well gents, I accept your reasoned comments in the spirit given.

But surely the Society is likely to attract more new members if they can view the forum before they make a decision to join. How else will they know if the members are like minded?

It's pleasing to hear promises that the general site is going to be updated on a regular basis. I hope this is enough to attract the same same volume of traffic it enjoyed in the past, given that the vast majority of forum visitors (all, not just BS) are too shy to post.

I hope this new content gives surfers a 'must join this' buzz. I trust posters on your rival (open) forums will announce to the world how great the new stuff is and bring new traffic to your door.

The vast majority of professional businesse have web sites offering free access. Companies swallow the cost in return for attracting customers and putting their products in front of them.

They don't wash their linen in public on these sites, but they do sell it. I genuinely feel you are doing yourself a diservice by closing the whole board. Society business should be restricted to members only, fully agree, but the rest? Favourite album, ever seen a duck pass wind, do pellets work in winter, and all the rest is what you should share with prospective customers.

Occasionally there is an interesting debate and that attracts interest and potential new members.

I, indeed you, could ask, why does the Society need to grow anyway? What additional benefits would this give?

It's a difficult call, and if I missed a discussion 18 months/ years ago, I do apologise, I wasn't a member then. However, when the hoo-ha errupted this summer it was over the Sutton fishery and your esteemed secretary will confirm that I indeed stepped in and suggested off-line that a number of irresponsible statements were being made on the site.

It appeared to me that the drive for secrecy came out of this issue and it was mooted that the River Reports were kept under wraps - something I would have no issue with. Indeed, an open forum and a members only report section represents a sensible way forward.

The Society walks a fine line between openness and being up its own bum at times. To take this step is to invite such criticisms.

It is merely an observation Fred. As I said no offence intended.

As an angler with over 45 years experience, and one who has been a member of many clubs, syndicates and societies I found the Barbel Society's decision to be very baffling.

My view, from a potential member of the Barbel Society would be:
Will this increase awareness of what the Society does?
not from my point of view.
The forums are a very good 'shop window' into the types of people who are members. Regular reading builds up a pretty accurate view of what the Society would be like.
Afer all the Society is but the sum of its' members?

Will it provoke an upsurge in membership?
I doubt that very mmuch. I myself am reconsidering as I write.

Is this democracy in action?
As TR says above, No, is the BS committee in action.
(now that I find rather alarming. Does this committee not usually act in a democratic manner?)

Are they trying to hide something?
That is not apparent from their actions.

Bearing the above to mind, would it not have been far more preferable to ballot the membership and accept their decision on such an important topic?

I do believe I will hold-off joining for a while.

I cant tell you how difficult it was for me to resist from commenting on your last sentence Bob.

I must be learning restraint. Have a nice day.

Peter,
Im sure you know the difference between a democratically elected committee and a committee acting democratically.

Tony - if you were a member of the DVSG you would have that option but alas you are not comparing apples with apples.

Can I read your private mail, please?

The DVSG is not a Society that represents a species, the anglers who fish for that species, nor does it seek to expand its membership. It doean't charge a membership fee, admission to Group events, run syndicates, publish a magazine, sell merchandise or involve itself in any other commercial ventures.

Our message board is a collection of open emails to all other members of the group giving information on specific swims, methods, baits and who's going where next, offers of transport, etc. In other words it is personal mail that we are happy for our whole 'family' to see.

I appreciate you're trying to divert this debate with mild taunting but come on, Tony, take this one seriously.

This is the UK's number two/three(?) single species organisation and it's going under cover. Defend the action by all means but please don't try and make it another BR vs TR issue. Continue that off-line by all means, but not here...