Interesting stuff

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Dec 6, 2005

I didn't think it would take long for Barrie Rickards to have a go at John Bailey. All he says I fully agree with, and I guess most of the rest of us do too.

As regards Bass - American freshwater bass that is. I have eaten many in my life, both Largemouth and Smallmouth. Both are superb eating fish with the Smallmouth having the edge. The flesh is white and firm with a nutty flavour, similar to a zander.

Mark Hodson · Dec 6, 2005

Years ago I was a big fan of John Bailey, I really liked some of his books like "Fishermans valley", "From Water to Net" and "Pike ,predator becomes the prey". I generally used to agree with most of what he wrote and his whole angling ethos. Ten years later and it seems he's had a personality transplant. What happened to him, did he bang his head hard or something ?

stuart clough · Dec 6, 2005

Just a note of caution regarding the Hampshire lake that "used" to contain black bass. There were actually two waters stocked, on opposite sides of the road. I had an opportunity to visit the "other" lake around 5 years ago and saw juvenile black bass in the margins, no more than 10cm at most.

Mark Wintle · Dec 6, 2005

Stuart,

One lake originally stocked by Laurence Pike in 1935 fish supplied by Leney. The other lake had some transferred from there. Funny part of Hampshire, it's in Dorset.
The original lake appears to have lost all its stock circa 1980. As you say there were still small ones in the other lake 5 years ago. But more recent reports suggest these have now died out. I keep trying to get evidence that they're still in there but to no avail.

Mark Wintle · Dec 6, 2005

Superb taking apart of John Bailey's ACA article by the way, Barrie. Looking forward to the Walker book, anyone know when the Stone-Walker letters book is actually coming out?

Bob Roberts · Dec 6, 2005

Mark

First you confuse me with something called a rudd, now it's an even rarer beast, a black bass.

I gather it's not just a shortened version of the name that John Ledger uses to describe his cousins!

Dorset. A county of many hidden treasures.

Mind you, we've still got dinosaurs. Take old Ron for instance...

;-)

Peter Jacobs · Dec 6, 2005

Bob,

I thought it was me who confused you about Rudd?

"Take old Ron for instance..."

No thanks - you'all keep him up there. Last time he came down my way it cost me 2 bottles of vintage Port!

Bob Roberts · Dec 6, 2005

See - you confused me good and proper!

It was still Mark's fault though.

You shouldn't be so harsh on Ron. He's the proof we all need that we can still go fishing long after we've died.

I'm sure I went to his funeral.

Old Barrie does write a good article, doesn't he? Especially the bit about nets.

As for the second round of Bailey vs Marsden in the next Coarse Fisherman I bet 'Our Graham' (as Cilla used to say) wishes he could have just done a quick cut and paste.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Dec 6, 2005

I've got my name down for the Stone/Walker letters Mark.

If there is one criticism I can level at Medlar Press is that it seems to take ages for a book to be released.

I think they need a good lesson in marketing. There is truly a fantastic demand for the writings of these classic authors.

Peter Jacobs · Dec 6, 2005

If it is half as good as 'Drop Me A Line' it'll be a fabulous read.

I'm off to Medlar to get a copy reserved too.

Barrie's articles are usually a joy to read and I find I sit and nod in agreement as I'm reading them
(sign of old age, so Ron tells me

I could take you to a lake in Wiltshire bob that will dispell any confusion about Rudd, and REAL Crucians too.
If you venture down to the Stour or the Avon again let me know in advance.

GrahamM · Dec 6, 2005

Bob, "As for the second round of Bailey vs Marsden in the next Coarse Fisherman I bet 'Our Graham' (as Cilla used to say) wishes he could have just done a quick cut and paste."

I emailed 'the next round' yesterday and then Barrie's article arrived today. Strangely (or perhaps not) Barrie is saying more or less the same thing I've said anyway. I'd find it very strange if anyone did agree with what John Bailey wrote in the ACA mag. There can't be more than one inhabitant of his particular planet.

Bob Roberts · Dec 6, 2005

This is going to sound rich coming from me, so deep breath first, I think the pair of you should have your say (eloquently as ever) and then put it to bed.

Sometimes I too think he's lost the plot, catch one barbel and move, etc, but to use a old David Hall phrase, no-one died.

The pair of you have given me more than my share of inspiration down the years, as has Barrie, and we know too well that every time you share a little bit of your soul with the world there's going to be someone waiting to take issue. Usually it's driven by 'little big man syndrome', jealousy or the old David and Goliath catchweight challenge.

Unusual circumstances in this case though, don't you think?

Peter, I'd love to take you up on your offer. Spring, early summer, let me know when's best. Might even drag young Matty B along.

Mind you, he ain't so young when you get to know him!

Peter Jacobs · Dec 6, 2005

Bob,

I'll certainly be in touch after the New Year and both you and Matt are more than welcome.

I might even manage to enlist Mr. Wintle to come along as well.

Bully · Dec 6, 2005

I thought Barries piece was excellent, and his surgical response to John Bailey spot on. I have not read the ACA article, but some of the pieces Barrie quoted made me spit!

I said two years ago that one of the reasons I stopped reading CF was his hollier than though views.

I just wished he would get back to his old writing styles.

Just one thing, I got confused about Barrie's view on uptraces. On the one hand he says "they can't do any harm" but concludes with "they do no good".

Or am I confused??

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Dec 6, 2005

The only time I have ever used what I think Barrie describes as an uptrace is for shark fishing years ago. The darned things tend to roll around your line and can bite through mono.

For pike dead baiting I use a 2 feet wire trace. For lures, the trace is about 18 inches long.

Jim Gibbinson · Dec 7, 2005

Re. keepnets. I apologise at the outset for my memory shortcomings in this regard, but I recall a survey done in, I think, Norfolk, where small fish caught in matches, and retained in keepnets, were dye-marked. Very few (might even have been none) of those fish were subsequently recaptured. Which suggests - although I concede it doesn't prove - that those fish died.

Bream retained in nets develop reddening of the belly due to subcutaneous bleeding. Empirical evidence suggests that survival rates are poor.

I'm currently fishing a still water for roach. The owners operate a no-keepnets rule - and guess what, the roach (even the big ones that have been around for a few years) are fin and scale perfect.

So I guess I'm with John bailey on this one. Indeed, I've written in the past that the cause of fish conservation would be well served by piling all the country's keepnets in a heap and burning the damn things.

That and denuding the skies of cormorants - unless we should respect the views of bird-lovers who enjoy seeing cormorants fishing on our lakes, rivers and canals....

Wolfman Woody · Dec 7, 2005

Interesting comment about dye marking, Jim, but there are dyes even today that will only last so long, weeks rather than months. I've asked about them to see if we can mark barbel in any way on their bellies to see what the growth rates are like.

The only effective dyes are the polymer resin dyes that have to be injected into a ray and even they disappear after a few years.

Not suggesting that this supports keepnets, but I can remember as kids catching the same roach time and again and that went into the standard KNOTTED string keepnet before being released.

If I had an infestation of pike around, Id rather put fish into a keepnet and release them all at the same time rather than feed each one as I released it to a waiting pike. I know it's only the pike's nature, but let him chase his own food rather than me feed him.

Wolfman Woody · Dec 7, 2005

I used to love the smell of the old knotted string keepnets and landing nets. You knew you were going fishing when they came out. Why can't they introduce that smell into today's keepnets?

GrahamM · Dec 7, 2005

Let's call the keepnets we do want 'Fish-Care Conservation Tubes' as suggested elsewhere. That should make a difference to the mind-set.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay · Dec 7, 2005

That was raw linseed oil Jeff. I too remember the wonderfull aroma of the old tackle shops. Keepnets intermingled with ammonia from the maggots.

Jim, your comments are very interesting indeed. Personally I find myself using keepnets less and less, except for roach fishing!

Interesting stuff

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