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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
That is some fish. Certainly a cock with a head and jaw like that.
However the more I look at the fish, the more I get the impression that it could be a salmon. The eye is quite far back from the jawline and there is evidence of a "wrist" at the tail.
It could even be a salmon/seatrout hybrid.
What do you think?
However the more I look at the fish, the more I get the impression that it could be a salmon. The eye is quite far back from the jawline and there is evidence of a "wrist" at the tail.
It could even be a salmon/seatrout hybrid.
What do you think?
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
Samazin right enough Chris, that it got up that far for one and that it got itself caught for another. I bet you wish it had been you on the end of that rod don't you Chris?
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
But ultimately I think it's a seatrout.
The square tail and the thicker tail wrist does it for me. Also the number of spots.
A big male seatrout yes!!
I somehow cannot see a salmon grabbing a roach livebait.
The square tail and the thicker tail wrist does it for me. Also the number of spots.
A big male seatrout yes!!
I somehow cannot see a salmon grabbing a roach livebait.
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Fred Bonney
Guest
and he put it back to fight another battle,great fish!
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Chris Bishop
Guest
Location where it was caught is right in the city centre a few yards from a busy road.
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yoggy
Guest
What a fantastic fish Chris,so much for the rule book regarding location location!!!!!
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
A whacking great cock salmon; look at the wrist of the tail, no problem picking it up by that. Forget colours or what bait it took, just a lost fish that forgot where it was.
He's lucky not to get prosecuted. It's illegal to weigh and photograph out of season salmon. You can tell they don't see many salmon around that way. Sorry guys, but you're getting excited over a mis-identified fish. When I get time tonight I'll get John Levell to have a look, and check Falkus and Buller for the id points.
He's lucky not to get prosecuted. It's illegal to weigh and photograph out of season salmon. You can tell they don't see many salmon around that way. Sorry guys, but you're getting excited over a mis-identified fish. When I get time tonight I'll get John Levell to have a look, and check Falkus and Buller for the id points.
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
I was interested in the comment that there was no spawn inside it.
How did he know?
Such fish at this time of the year are making for the spawing redds - upper Wensum? Cock fish do not carry anything like as much milt in weight as a female.
How did he know?
Such fish at this time of the year are making for the spawing redds - upper Wensum? Cock fish do not carry anything like as much milt in weight as a female.
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Cakey
Guest
blimey....so you dont think it was a wind up then ??
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
Mark,
As regards identification, there are a few points on the fish that makes me THINK its a seatrout.
First of all, the tail fin. There is no evidence of a fork in it. Salmon have a pronounced concave tail fin with an indentation in the centre. Second, the wrist of the tail is too stocky and not thin enough. Third, there are too many spots below the lateral line.
The evidence for a salmon is the head. The eye SEEMS to be set far back. Yet I've caught a few big cock rainbows in my life with heads shaped like this.
I don't want to be dogmatic however.
It could also be a hybrid.
As regards identification, there are a few points on the fish that makes me THINK its a seatrout.
First of all, the tail fin. There is no evidence of a fork in it. Salmon have a pronounced concave tail fin with an indentation in the centre. Second, the wrist of the tail is too stocky and not thin enough. Third, there are too many spots below the lateral line.
The evidence for a salmon is the head. The eye SEEMS to be set far back. Yet I've caught a few big cock rainbows in my life with heads shaped like this.
I don't want to be dogmatic however.
It could also be a hybrid.
Paul Mallinson 2
New member
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Regardless of what it is its a fantastic fish and the capture of a lifetime. Its the essance of why we all go fishing, you never know whats sniffing the bait.
Glad to hear it went back.
It reminds me of the 5lb+ record perch that the schoolboy caught a couple of years ago.
Glad to hear it went back.
It reminds me of the 5lb+ record perch that the schoolboy caught a couple of years ago.
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Chris Bishop
Guest
It is one very strange fish, the more you look at it. Is it some really exotice breed of salmon like sockeye or whatever the reddish ones they get in the US are..?
In which case it's thousands of miles off course.
In which case it's thousands of miles off course.
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)
Guest
It has the usual markers of a sea trout ie jaw beyond its eye and straight tail edge but it doesn't quite look 100% sea trout.
Could it be a very big brown trout?The colours dont show up too well on the photo.
Are there any trout farms in the area which may have got rid of brood stock by freeing them into the river?
Could it be a very big brown trout?The colours dont show up too well on the photo.
Are there any trout farms in the area which may have got rid of brood stock by freeing them into the river?
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
You have a good point Nigel. It just could be a big "Ferox" type brownie that grew big from eating coarse fish.
However there is one aspect that is puzzling me.
The lack of well developed teeth in its jaw.
This points to seatrout
However there is one aspect that is puzzling me.
The lack of well developed teeth in its jaw.
This points to seatrout
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Chris Bishop
Guest
There are trout farms further up the Wensum Valley.
Patrick Leigh 2
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
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That is no Salmon.
It is either a Sea Trout or a very large brownie (obviously, a sea trout is a brown trout which has the urge to go to sea hence definitive identification is very difficult) Either way, an awesome fish.
I had a male brownie of 9.4 from the Ouse which although an awful lot smaller than the specimen reported, it had the distinctive kype and markings of the fish pictured above and a very red tinge to it's body due mainly to the Crayfish diet no doubt.
It is either a Sea Trout or a very large brownie (obviously, a sea trout is a brown trout which has the urge to go to sea hence definitive identification is very difficult) Either way, an awesome fish.
I had a male brownie of 9.4 from the Ouse which although an awful lot smaller than the specimen reported, it had the distinctive kype and markings of the fish pictured above and a very red tinge to it's body due mainly to the Crayfish diet no doubt.
Mark Wintle
Well-known member
This evening I will consult the definitive reference on this - Falkus and report back; my money is still on salmon. The size alone is the best pointer to it being a salmon.
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
Throughout angling history there have been debates and even very strong language expressed regarding the identification of salmon and seatrout.
The classic took place in the 60s and involved a famous Welsh seatrout angler by the name of FW Holiday. I think it was in Trout & Salmon that he published a picture of a fair sized grilse of about 7lbs, claiming it to be a seatrout.
Even I spotted that the fish was no seatrout. The debate filled the letter pages of the magazine for several months, to the point where Mr Holiday gave up.
Publishing that picture ruined his reputation!
I have spent at least two hours gazing at that fish today. I have looked up numerous references and quite a few websites. One thing I will say is that it's not a true Salmo salar (Atlantic Salmon)
As to where it comes from, well that IS the question?
The classic took place in the 60s and involved a famous Welsh seatrout angler by the name of FW Holiday. I think it was in Trout & Salmon that he published a picture of a fair sized grilse of about 7lbs, claiming it to be a seatrout.
Even I spotted that the fish was no seatrout. The debate filled the letter pages of the magazine for several months, to the point where Mr Holiday gave up.
Publishing that picture ruined his reputation!
I have spent at least two hours gazing at that fish today. I have looked up numerous references and quite a few websites. One thing I will say is that it's not a true Salmo salar (Atlantic Salmon)
As to where it comes from, well that IS the question?
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Frank "Chubber" Curtis
Guest
Sorry Mark but need to refer to anybody. It's definitely a trout but whether it's a sea trout or a ferox is uncertain.
I've caught dozens of salmon and seatrout and I've never seen a salmon with that shaped tail or such a thick tail wrist. Also the mouth extends back behind the eye.
It could be what is sometimes known as a slob trout which is a trout that lives and breeds in a river but occasionally goes down to the estuary to gorge itself on shrimp, crab and whitebait. The biggest of these I ever saw was on the Association stretch of the Spey at Grantown over 30 years ago when an angler had one of just under 30lb. In those day a 20lb fish was not uncommon.
I've caught dozens of salmon and seatrout and I've never seen a salmon with that shaped tail or such a thick tail wrist. Also the mouth extends back behind the eye.
It could be what is sometimes known as a slob trout which is a trout that lives and breeds in a river but occasionally goes down to the estuary to gorge itself on shrimp, crab and whitebait. The biggest of these I ever saw was on the Association stretch of the Spey at Grantown over 30 years ago when an angler had one of just under 30lb. In those day a 20lb fish was not uncommon.