Would the experts have caught?

sagalout · Feb 18, 2011

I went, yesterday morning, to a club water that is well stocked with large roach, bream and perch. I arrived at 0700 and started with a three metre whip and single maggot, fishing shallow and gradually getting deeper. Single maggot, size 16 hook, 3 maggots loose feed every cast. Not a bite, not touch.

Set up the pole and fished at two banker spots, nothing.

Ten o'clock I packed up and went to another club water and had a brilliant day with small roach, perch, pike and a 6lb carp.

So the question is would the top matchmen have caught at the first water and why?

(I put the why in the question to stop Windy's new yes/no answers

)

peter crabtree · Feb 18, 2011

I think I would have started fishing at dead depth and watched for bites on the drop, and gradually shallowed up instead. possibly a 16 hook was too big for single maggot making its fall too fast. I would have tried scaling down to a 20 or 22 and experimenting with my shot to alter presentation.
I would have fished 2 lines , say one to the left and the other to the right, feeding one line constantly with loose feed and not feeding the other at all.

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Feb 18, 2011

I agree with Peter, start at dead deapth and come up in the water

S-Kippy · Feb 18, 2011

Caught something...possibly.Caught steadily...probably not. I've experienced this too when no matter what you do you cannot buy a bite from a water that you know is full of fish even when conditions seem good. I cannot believe that every fish in the water is "off" so the only explanation that makes any sense to me is that the fish just aren't having it or [more likely] just aren't there on that day... banker swim or not. Why ? Goodness knows.

There are only two options in my book...go home or move.I cannot be having with scratching around for a couple of mugfish. Life is too short.

sagalout · Feb 18, 2011

I now have some further information, after a visit to the tackle shop. This water is something to do with a working clay extraction and so the water is always whitish, but at the moment it is really thick with run off, and apparently it silts up the fishes gills.

A match that was fished there on saturday was won with 600grams.

I accept what you say about starting dead depth but I was after some small roach for livebaits originally. 20/22 hooks, with my eyes and fingers you have got to be joking! A 16 is all but invisible and gets lost in the creases of me knuckles.

sam vimes · Feb 18, 2011

I generally expect a reasonably good match angler to outfish me in pretty much every circumstance but especially so in winter where every bite counts. A good matchman will end up using smaller hooks, baits and finer diameter hooklinks than I ever do. That still doesn't mean that they'll catch on every occasion that I'd expect to struggle.

sagalout · Feb 18, 2011

sam vimes said:
I generally expect a reasonably good match angler to outfish me

I expect everyone to out fish me, but when i can't even get a bite, and there is nothing showing on a normally very productive water it just got me to thinking (well I did have a lot of time

) would everybody blank or can the top men always produce.

I am really interested now in how often the top men struggle to catch. C'mon you top blokes (we know you all read FM for tips and help

) tell us if struggle like us mere mortals.

S-Kippy · Feb 18, 2011

Even the best cannot catch fish that aren't there or will not feed.

theartist · Feb 18, 2011

The best skill you can have this time of year is time. Time to (work and family commitments allowing) pick and choose which days to go or to stay at home.

Especially on stillwaters the difference between a cold crisp day following a heavy frost and one of those days with warm westerlies and plenty of cloud cant be underestimated.

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Feb 18, 2011

Sometime you have to admit defeat and ret somewhere else as you did

Windy · Feb 18, 2011

..........

sagalout · Feb 19, 2011

That is a very good point, Windy.

Windy · Feb 19, 2011

sagalout said:
(I put the why in the question to stop Windy's new yes/no answers )

sagalout said:
That is a very good point, Windy.

.................

tigger · Feb 19, 2011

sam vimes said:
I generally expect a reasonably good match angler to outfish me in pretty much every circumstance but especially so in winter where every bite counts. A good matchman will end up using smaller hooks, baits and finer diameter hooklinks than I ever do. That still doesn't mean that they'll catch on every occasion that I'd expect to struggle.

I can't weigh up why people think match anglers are the best of anglers. Anyone can scale down or up their gear etc it's not just something a match angler is capable of most of us can do it, it ain't rocket science

It all depends on how much effort your prepared to put in and of course some good old fashioned luck doesn't go amiss.

sam vimes · Feb 20, 2011

tigger said:
I can't weigh up why people think match anglers are the best of anglers. Anyone can scale down or up their gear etc it's not just something a match angler is capable of most of us can do it, it ain't rocket science
It all depends on how much effort your prepared to put in and of course some good old fashioned luck doesn't go amiss.

I don't think they are supermen at all and didn't say they were. I just don't feel the need to fish very light in the desperate attempt to get a bite. Been there in the past, scratching around with 12oz bottoms, squats (or even bloodworm) on size 24s just ain't my thing anymore. I even recall winning a section with fish so small that they had to be kept in a bait tub. One fella sussed what I was doing and followed suit to take second. I'd rather just pick my times to go to maximize my chances in the first place these days. I'm not particularly interested in catching tiddlers and haven't fished a match of any description for a good ten years.

cg74 · Feb 20, 2011

"Would the experts have caught?"

Bit of a tough one to call as there may not have been a fish within 50 yards of where you sat. "Banker" doesn't mean they're glued to the swim, so for whatever reason (wind direction etc) many/most/all (?) the fish may have moved away.

But if using a single maggot as hook bait and in view of the species present, you could have dropped your hook size to an 18 - 20 even a 22, lightened your hook link to 0.08mm, 0.07mm even 0.06mm pre-stretched line such as Power Reflo.
A bait change may have been in order, seeing as you were fishing a small fish venue and at a tough time of year, blood worm and joker would be a better option or if a bit pricey chopped worms would also score when maggots don't.

Would I have caught there, NO I wouldn't have gone there to try, my bait would have been under a willow raft trying to tempt a chub.

Would the likes of Will Raison, Bob Nudd etc have caught, if fish were present IMO undoubtedly they would!

mcdejer16 · Feb 20, 2011

sagalout said:
I now have some further information, after a visit to the tackle shop. This water is something to do with a working clay extraction and so the water is always whitish, but at the moment it is really thick with run off, and apparently it silts up the fishes gills.

A match that was fished there on saturday was won with 600grams.

I accept what you say about starting dead depth but I was after some small roach for livebaits originally. 20/22 hooks, with my eyes and fingers you have got to be joking! A 16 is all but invisible and gets lost in the creases of me knuckles.

Was it key or sawmills,?

In those sort of conditions I would expect to catch fish, I would have fished three lines one at 7metres and two at 13. Used a sweet groundbait with squatts and casters. Cup in two balls at 7 and 5 on each of the 13m lines. Loose feed casters with 2/3 squatts on the hook to start, then regularly change through various hookbaits until I one that was consistently got a bite every put in. Depth wise start at dead depth, but I would happily lay 2ft on or fish 6ins off the deck depending on water conditions or how the fish responding to the presentation.

Rig wise 0.10 Shimano Antaires mainline and start on 0.09 hooklength with a 22 B511, but this would change depending on catch rate. I wouldn't hesistate changing to a 16 b611 or dropping to a size 30 au lion dor to 0.05.

Hope this helps
Mark

sagalout · Feb 21, 2011

Hi Baggy, it was key. Thanks for the info, it is all beyond what I am willing to do, I don't even carry that many baits

, and anyway a quick move to weedy solved it all

.

Yacko · Feb 22, 2011

It's hard to know just how 'impossible' the fishing was on that venue in that swim in just a 7am-10am time slot. It could be that things may have picked up but you moved on- which is fair enough. If I was wanting to catch and avoid a blank I would be starting with a smaller hook than a 16 for sure at this time of the year. I'm not a matchman but do try to follow a similar approach, apart from fishing fine the other critical area they are so well accomplished in is judging the amount of feed. My eyesight is not so good but using a hook tyer and having cadged some extra strong glasses that I just wear for short hook tying spells, I can tie a bit below a size 20, which is easy enough to rig up on the bank using loop to loop. So I think with a bit of imagination most people can fish finer than they think.
In general IMHO a good matchman would catch on a well stocked venue in all but the most terrible conditions- including having to break an inch of ice and fishing in a hole!
No disrespect to anyone posting though

Would the experts have caught?

sagalout

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peter crabtree

AKA Simon, 1953 - 2022 (RIP)

Lord Paul of Sheffield

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S-Kippy

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sagalout

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sam vimes

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sagalout

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S-Kippy

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theartist

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Lord Paul of Sheffield

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Windy

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sagalout

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Windy

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tigger

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sam vimes

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cg74

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mcdejer16

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sagalout

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Yacko

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