A plan so cunning...

  • Thread starter Tom "mendip mammoth" Laws
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Tom "mendip mammoth" Laws

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This also appears on Ukriversguidebook.co.uk just Here





Here's a cunning plan to improve relations between paddlers and anglers, that is both cunning and will help save the environment that we all enjoy.

The images above show the River [url=http://ukriversguidebook.co.uk/ogwen.htm] Ogwen in very low water. The Ogwen is an absolute gem, one of the classic North Wales and indeed U.K. rivers. Continuous and scenic at the same time, with some really cool long rapids. However, it is also strewn with rubbish both on the immediate banks and strained in various places within the river. All this cannot be good for the river either for paddling, or fishing. (how many fish have you seen using a scooter, or having a kip on an old matress?!)

So how about this for a plan....

There is a good working relationship between the Bethesda anglers and kayakers (see river guide above for example), so why don't we (paddlers and anglers) get together one weekend and tidy the river up? It would give everyone a chance to "chew the fat" and discover that we are all only people who enjoy being outside. Not only that, it would help preserve both of our play areas.

To me, this seems like a better plan than paying loads of money to get piddled in a field and not achieving anything, and it gets to the meat of the problem, which is that we never get a chance to discuss what goes on.

I welcome feedback on this idea.

Tom (mendipmammoth on ukrgb)
 
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Chris Bishop

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Long way from here I live but sounds a great idea in principle. Imagine the local anglers are game anglers though, so they don't fish it when it's in spate, which I presume is top kayaking time.
 
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Tom "mendip mammoth" Laws

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Top paddling time is indeed when its well up, but top time for fishing and clearing out rubbish is when its low.

Tom
 
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Tom "mendip mammoth" Laws

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There is no need to be confrontational,

My knowledge of angling is pretty limited, and I will gladly accept corection from someone who is in "the know". I would however appreciate less agressive replies, as that achieves nothing.

Tom
 
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BLAM

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How is asking a question being confrontational? How is a two word question without recourse to expletives being aggressive?

Sorry you've lost me.
 
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Lee Fletcher 1

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I have a cunning plan M'a Lord.

Fishing clubs throughout England and Wales already undertake litter picking days and events. We've actually been looking after our stretches in this manner for well over a hundred years now without the help of anyone. Well over a hundred years ago the NFA was formed to fight pollution in our rivers and from their humble beginnings angling has grown to what it is today.

Odd that a paddler wants to help out now don't you think?

Hang on a minute though, their help could be back dated to lets say, 1860????

Does the government have that many black bags in stock?

And does anyone think that this rush to help anglers out might not have ever materialised if it wasn?t for a certain EDM957? Then again, the paddlers could sign up to the EDM957/A1/A2. No? Ok, we?ll carry on looking after the rivers we pay for ourselves then.

Regards,

Lee.
 
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paul williams 2

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Perhaps the NFA could backdate their help to the Blackcountry and other industrial areas back to 1860 also Lee?...imho any talk between water users is good and should be encouraged............
 
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john smith 4

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Lee, go and have a look on UKRGB a lot of positive discussion is taking place. I see nobody taking a militant, up yours approach.

It never ceases to amaze me that whenever a paddler tries to say, "look come and have a bit of a social, do you think this is a good idea?" You always get a minority like yourself taking a dig.

Toms post was not an inflammatory we want access moan. It was a genuine attempt to get the two conflicting groups together.

This is not about anglers versus paddlers. As Tom has said before, being confrontational is not helping anyone.

I for one would be well up for it. Its about time we worked together to make the rivers cleaner.
 
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Tom "mendip mammoth" Laws

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Blam, my appologies, I am afraid to say that the current atmosphere between anglers and paddlers is such that perhaps we are all looking for conflict, as that is how it has always been.

Lee, this idea is about working TOGETHER to preserve the environment we enjoy. I find your attitude extremely selfish.

Regards

Tom
 
Peter Jacobs

Peter Jacobs

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Tom,

If you are at all involved in the current activities by paddlers, designed to prompt action from the angling fraternity, then you will know that the problems of access are far more complicated than some paddlers would like the angling fraternity to believe.
 
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john smith 4

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Come on people. This isn`t a mud slinging contest. Tom asked for sensible opinions and all thats happened is that people are shooting him down in flames.

If anyone does not wish to work together then don`t post to this thread, don`t offer a confrontational opinion, there are plenty of other threads on here that you can slag paddlers off on.
 
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Mike Redding

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I am utterly astonished by the comments made here. Tom comes along with an excellent plan to improve the river environment for both our mutual benefit and is lambasted and accused of employing underhand tactics. Based on the attitude of some on this thread I am, at this point in time, ashamed to call myself an angler.

To quote Peter Jacobs from the 'Angling and Canoeing' thread:

"Mike,
An interesting starting point that both factions should take to heart. Access issues apart, I would like to see far greater mutual respect between both anglers and paddlers."

Come on Peter, stop playing the double standards game and try practicing what you preach!

I have paddled the Ogwen many times and, in places, it is like a rubbish tip. Tom's plan is nothing but commendable.


Right - to try to add something positive to the discussion I see problems with health and safety (manual handling issues, sharp contaminated objects etc.). The EA may be able to offer guidance and would be an excellent party to get onside for this.

Realistically I feel the best option is to clear the river of the smaller, more manageable bits of rubbish. Paddlers could collect rubbish from mid-stream and ferry it to anglers collecting on the banks. Both parties could then hand-ball sacks of rubbish out to designated collection points where it could be picked up by road, or landowners access points etc. Obviously, landowners would need to be involved, as would angling groups.

Mike.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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You are right Peter, slagging people off gets us nowhere.

I think the biggest rift between anglers and other river users is that in many cases anglers have to pay condiderable sums of money to make use of rivers, whilst boaters and other river users pay nothing.

In addition to the national licence which can cost over ?60 if there are migratory species in the river, there are day tickets, club fees etc that in the case of migratory species can be as high as ?5000 a year per individual angler.

These differences are what cause a lot of the problems, yet I am sure Tom Laws is aware of this.

Do you need a licence for a kayak/canoe/boat Tom?

I hate to bring up the subject of South Africa again, but you did there, even for a float tube.
 
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Tom "mendip mammoth" Laws

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It is true that you don't need an official lisence to paddle anywhere (except most White water courses) however a great number of us are members of the BCU or WCA, many of us also pay to be members of clubs etc.

I can understand your point that "you paid for it" so you want it. However I'm not particuarly fussed about the whole acces thing, as someone will always moan regardless of how the laws are set. My idea is not to change the world, simply to get a bunch of people together and start cleaning up a few rivers. Kinda like Sufers against sewage, but on a smaller scale.

People can take what they want from my idea, and when I put it in to action (probably this summer) I simply hope to tidy up a great stretch of river for ALL to use.

Tom
 
Peter Jacobs

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Mike,

Just what part of "access issues aside" did you have a problem understanding?

I am certainly NOT playing double standards, or anything else for that matter.

I was sincere in my comment about wishing to see greater mutual respect between the factions. That said, there is the entire wider and far more problematical issue of ACCESS, and the FACT that paddlers want unlimited access without paying the sort of fees that anglers have to shell out!

The current actions of 'some' paddlers are designed to elicit a legal response from the anglers, and in that respect Mike, the level of naivety is indeed astonishing!
 
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