How do they Know?

When a 'big name' from match or specialist fishing, says nice things about tackle and bait that they use - is it all about money or commercial interests?

When they say using 'brand X' gives me an 'edge' what do they mean? Do they mean an advantage over the fish or another competitor? In my experience a feeding fish can be presented with a whole range of bait and the fish will take it. And in terms of tackle, again in my experience its really all about presenting a bait to the fish, the rod and reel et al. are pretty much a 'side issue'.

So here's an example 'TFG Red Hot Chilli Hemp' is it any better than boiled hemp that the Roach in my local canal adore? Buy this stuff and use it, you'll want it to work and if you catch you'll become a believer in the product. There will never be a time that you can perform and type of meaningful 'test' an A or B comparison so how can they say its 'the undisputed king of particles?'

I watched TV show where the 'name' made a ground bait mix which was more involved than an aerospace alloy - now I'm not prepared to say that what he did was unnecessary but he was saying 'this does this' and 'that does that' but with each ingredient the brand on the packet was clearly displayed to camera - If there was another angler of similar ability in the next peg doing something different we could have compared and contrasted the approach but there wasn't - But even that would mean very little as a test.

I see these unchallenged claims time and time again and as the magazines and TV shows never say 'prove it', or ask why?

Each time that I go fishing is unique, no two days are the same. I spend my time trying to develop my water craft skills to get the best out of the swim and ask myself the question 'where would the fish be' and then I try to put a bait there. The baits that I use are the standard fare - Maggots, Casters, Worms, Hemp, Tares, Sweetcorn, Bread, Pellets, Meat and Pastes. But if I have a good day on any one bait - that's it. Its impossible to deduce that its given me the 'edge' its just what the fish were feeding on, so how are the 'names' so certain?

Am I a deluded blinkered fool who is stuck in his ways and should I be buying more 'funky' baits?

Mark

When an expert says one rod is better than another you need to see what they are comparing it against - but this goes for any test.

Watch a motoring programme and the expert say something like "Car X handles better round the corner than car Y but car Y has better 0-60"
How many of us ever drive like they do on these programmes?
How often do you wish you had done 0-60 in 5.8 seconds not 6.9?

Same with angling - a more expensive rod (£150) might be lighter and better balanced than a cheaper one (£50) and you may find holding it easier and the fish playing better but how many of us can compare a pole at £2500 to a pole at £1000 and tell a difference

With ground baits - other with additives will give you an edge over plain bread crumb I believe and certain ground baits are designed to be more active than others

Overall I think a lot comes with confidence and time - to start it is easier to buy ready made bait (tined hemp) but when you gain a bit of experience you soon start trying things for yourself.

For those who fish rarely or are starting such ready made baits are good

Funky baits and witches cauldrons are designed to catch anglers not fish .How anyone can say that a certain rod can out perform another in catching ability if they are of the same ilk is beyond me .
The most important thing that you can take to the bank as far as I am concerned is your brain .And as long as you take a selection of baits along with you (old school )you will catch .
If I was hungry and wanted a roast would I pour custard over the top just to add a bit of zing.I think not

You are right Mark in that no test can prove 100% positive that one bait/groundbait is better than another because you're dealing with nature and to some extent randomness. As for rods and reels, there are good ones and fabulous ones and price isn't always the key, although it can help.

Of course it's the person doing the presenting in that he's selling the stuff to you that he's paid (or provided with) to sponsor. How silly, crazy, foolish, hypocritical almost, when he drops or is dropped by that bait company and moves to another and says the same of their products, implying that the previous company now can't hack it even though everything is the same as it always was.

As for your question "'where would the fish be?", I was reading an old article by **** Walker (well, Ron's away so someone has to mention him ) the other day and he was going on about 'instinct'. He suggested siting in a swim quietly for quite a while looking at it and even though it showed no sign of life, ie: bubbles, splashes, fizzing, your eyes would be drawn to one particular area and that was where you should fish. More often than not, he proclaimed, your instinct would prove correct.

No mention of flavoured baits then because they simply didn't exist. I do use Sensas Bream 3000 when feeder fishing a river for the sole reason that I just love the smell and to hell with what the fish want. It works though.

It's about belief, bit like something else which we can't talk about on here . With that belief comes confidence in something, that is likely to make you fish to your optimum.
And that in my experience puts fish on the bank.

As for testing, you can't, to many variables.... end of.

Fertile territory for the snake-oil salesperson

it makes me laugh when anglers that are names endorse this or that made by whoever,they are only saying what the sponsor of whatever they are using at that time wants them to say,a bit like a footballer kissing the badge on his shirt and a week later wants a transfer,the best according to them is made by whoever they are paid/sponsored by at the time.

I have spent a large amount of me hard earned wedge on a variety of additives, liquids, flavours, and the latest must have snake oil (well, fish oil in this case) and I have found no difference between adding a flavour to the base and not.

I am now going down the route of pellets and ground pellets only. I will see how this works out.

I stopped using hemp, because as good as it is, it did not seem any better than micro pellets and they need no preparation.

Maggots are still good, tho

It's surprising how far down the business road fishing has gone in the last 20 years. It's no longer a pass-time or a hobby but a huge business with big multi national companies fighting for market dominance. It has a bonus as tackle wise we've never had it so good but then you do have alot of marketing tricks to put up with.

I must confess to being highly cycnical, I very rarely believe anything that the names say regarding products as they paid to say them, it's just business. I know for a fact that a marketing DVD showed anglers spodding and in fact they only spodded for the camera's and all the baiting was done via a row boat, rigs we're even dropped off via a boat although the lake bans boats.

Bait is a bit different, I would say that 90% of the time put a well presented bait infront of a hungry fish and you'll have a bite but I honestly think that some baits are better than others on certain waters. I fished a section of canal for pike years ago, the only dead bait the pike would pick up was smelt on another pit dead roach would massively outfish any other dead bait. I've found certain types of boilies to be better than others, I'd rather fish a fishmeal bait than a heavily flavoured ball of soya and semolina. I don't believe the hype in the mags and dvd's, I'll find out for myself and off other angler that I trust.

I think the biggest edge is the angler, his skill and ability not the tackle and bait. I'm quite sure that Bob Nudd would beat me in a match even if he was limited to maggots, brown crumb and a £50 set up and I could have all the lastest tackle and bait.

22mm MuNga boilies, sorted with no rant!:j

noknot said:

22mm MuNga boilies, sorted with no rant!:j

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22mm? You muppet!

I get my MuNga direct, custom-buffed balls of fish joy by da man at a mighty 40mm!

See below, me catching the Two Tone at 101lb on aforementioned sponsored menu.



These monsta MuNga bad boys will knock carps out at 20 paces provided you have matching rods, reels, reelines and terminal buildings....

Peas and love man!

I must admit as a returner to Fishing I find it highly bewildering and in yer face the way the bait companys and tackle ones also come over these days, part of me wants to run for the hills and have deemed that all of this advertising takes the pleasure out of a ejoyable hobby due to every Tom **** or whatever telling you their product will catch more I see it more as a craft to learn and enjoy.

So I have decided to switch off from the adverts for good or bad and to keep it simple mainly for my own pockets sake ,I can't be doing with all these potions to attract fish that might or might not work, to say that is to fish with the old favorites Bread in all its forms, maggots and corn.

I do not feel this limits me in any way and as my handle suggests prefer the margins of which many a good size fish has been landed. This instinct that has been mentioned in other posts is within all of us I feel from way way back in our biology, maybe those that do not listen to it should do, its a real buzz when you get it right , fun and fraustrating learning too.

I'm with you marginman - comercialisation of fishing is such a turn off. Instincts and carefully presenting bait to feeding fish is the key. Get it right and there is a feeling of conectivity, a oneness with the environment that I try to become absorbed in.

Had a really exciting day stalking Chub on a little fished section on my little river - of course we have run out of river season, but observing fish upwards of 4lb still gets my pulse racing..........

Will be hitting the Cricket pitch as conditions warm for the deadliest of early spring still water baits - the lob worm!!!!! Absolutely free and accounted for carp to 24lb - MUNGA!!!

hahaha nice one ****y.

All

Now your a good angler catching good fish and in the media, a company comes to you and says, use our bait, tackle, what ever, and give us a plug in the press. In return we will give you tackle or bait at cost, sometimes free, What are you going to do ??? you would take it wouldnt you.

I know and understand what some are saying, but if these anglers were not doing this, how would you know what is on the market, how would you know what is any good, and what isn't.

How would you know what waters are fishing well in other areas ??

There is far more to angling than just fishing.

I dont knock the anglers for giving a report on products, but i cant stand those who make out they caught this fish after months of hard work, when the facts are, they have heard or seen it in the media, and the everyday angler, like us has done all the hard work for them.

They are known as the Circus.

You'd never catch me being part of a circus.

woody said:

You'd never catch me being part of a circus.

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Are you sure Woody, FM has some clowns .....:wh

Ray Daywalker Clarke said:

I know and understand what some are saying, but if these anglers were not doing this, how would you know what is on the market, how would you know what is any good, and what isn't.

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Yes - How do we know what is genuinely good if there is commercial interest in it for someone to say its good? Or try this, when was there a published review that said don't waste your time and money with this?

I rarely buy the angling press, its thinly veiled adverts parading as 'features' I find are insidious. There have been a number of replies here that point out that there is more to fishing than catching fish.

The point that I've laboured to make is that there is no way that the claims and platitudes of 'names' and bait companies can ever be substantiated.

Jeff Woodhouse said:

As for your question "'where would the fish be?", I was reading an old article by **** Walker (well, Ron's away so someone has to mention him ) the other day and he was going on about 'instinct'. He suggested siting in a swim quietly for quite a while looking at it and even though it showed no sign of life, ie: bubbles, splashes, fizzing, your eyes would be drawn to one particular area and that was where you should fish. More often than not, he proclaimed, your instinct would prove correct.

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That is right but rather than it being any form of ESP I think that it is a matter of watercraft. After years of fishing, you begin to understand subconsciously just what is likely to be happening in the swim - especially in rivers - and from that knowledge you work out where the fish are. Initially the understanding is only really effective on swims fished frequently, but as one's knowledge expands, it becomes easier to understand the swims in other venues and one can go to other waters and fish them successfuly almost from day one. It is when an angler can go to almost any venue and catch fish consistantly - even from waters he has never fished before that he/she is becoming what is considered by many to be a good angler.

m a brooks said:

Yes - How do we know what is genuinely good if there is commercial interest in it for someone to say its good? Or try this, when was there a published review that said don't waste your time and money with this?

I rarely buy the angling press, its thinly veiled adverts parading as 'features' I find are insidious. There have been a number of replies here that point out that there is more to fishing than catching fish.

The point that I've laboured to make is that there is no way that the claims and platitudes of 'names' and bait companies can ever be substantiated.

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1st, I dont know any angler who would put his name to a bad product, I would think thats why you dont see bad reveiws.

2nd, As for the baits , baits change from week to week, there are always new baits, and companies want the top anglers to promote them. Anglers move between bait companies true, but thats no different to anyone moving from job to job is it ??

1st, I dont know any angler who would put his name to a bad product, I would think thats why you dont see bad reveiws.

We don't see critical reviews because magazines rely on the advertising revenue from the manufacturers. You are more likely to find an honest appraisal on FM.

2nd, As for the baits , baits change from week to week, there are always new baits, and companies want the top anglers to promote them. Anglers move between bait companies true, but thats no different to anyone moving from job to job is it ??

Whether a top angler moves from one company to another is one thing, its worth remembering that at that point, it is their job to say something nice about products that they use.

However, they can never substantiate their claims.