Problems with stiff rigs

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all rounder

Guest
I have started to use the ESP stiff filament in 15LB strain which I really like but I am having problems knotting it. The info that comes with it recommends a 3 turn grinner or blood knot but as much as I try I cannot tie them without damaging the line....only slightly but it always leaves a slightly stressed/crinkly effect just above the knot, same problem with the Palomar. I have no problems with mono and have tried using knot lube before pulling tight but no difference ...Anyone else had this problem and knows a way round it ?
 
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BUDGIE BURGESS

Guest
Most people use a four turn grinner knot.Do you wind the tag end back up the line four times before making the loop? If so don't! just lay the tag end back along the main line before making the loop. Moisten with saliva before tightening slowly. This does not remove the problem totally but it does reduce some of the crinkling of the line.
 
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BUDGIE BURGESS

Guest
The first Tackle Workshop article is up already. How to make a Carp hanger as requested by Kit! Coming soon we will be answering a request for a Carp Springer type indicator and also a request to show how to repair the tip on a broken feeder rod. As Graham has already said anything that you or anyone else wants to see just let us know. If we can not help I can always ask around!
 
A

all rounder

Guest
Thanks Budgie but thats how I am making the knot anyway. I agree that a 4 or 5 turn Grinner is more common but the info leaflet with the filament is very specific...it says 3 turn Grinner or blood knot (which I dont like using). I have a feeling they said this as it is basically impossible to use a 4 turn Ginner with this stuff! Can't imagine what it must be like to try and use the 25Lb version. Pity as its streets ahead of Amnesia for a stiff link.
 
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Carp Angler

Guest
I think the problem may lie in the composition of the line, unlike mono which absorbs water, some modern co-polymers and flouro's do not. As soon as you tighten the knot the friction burns off the moisture(saliva) and the crinkle effect appears. I haven't notest any decrease in strength with this, you could try tying it in a bucket of water, as I do with my braid. With the ESP I tend to use a knotless knot at the hook end and a double overhand loop at the swivel, both are superglued and both are reliable.
 
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Philip Inzani

Guest
Carp Angler, thanks for your thoughts, I also use a knotless knot at the hook end and have no problems with that but prefer to use a Palomar or Grinner at the swivel tied to a flexi ring swivel or similar. I think you are right that its the make up of the line itself...
going to try your idea of tying it in a bucket of water.
 
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BUDGIE BURGESS

Guest
Sounds logical,let us know how you get on Phill.Hows the Barbell fishing going by the way?
 
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Philip Inzani

Guest
Tried the bucket of water, same crinkle effect unfortunatly....Barble fishing is not going well if you base it on Barble caught! Fished Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for a few hours after dark for nothing but I think I am getting closer. I have one swim in particular that I think will produce if I can put in enough time but I'm blanking like a good'un at present!
 
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Carp Angler

Guest
Phil
Try the double overhand loop, I tie this to a flexi ring aswell, tease the knot together slowly and gently, dry then glue.
 
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Philip Inzani

Guest
Thanks, I know the double overhand works but I just don't trust that knot....never had a problem with it when I have used it (so maybe I should just use it!) but I just feel more confident with a "proper" knot if I can. One thing I did not mention was I noticed that the crinkle only apperas on the main hook length; not on the tag end of the knot. I did think about leaving a long tag end and using that but if you do this and pull a Grinner really tight it sort of "pulls away" from the swivel and leaves a tiny loop...again may not make any differnce at all, but its a confidence thing.

Quick question...why are you using the loop and a flexi ring swivel?
 
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Carp Angler

Guest
Before flexi ring swivels came on the market I used the stiff rig with the double overhand, then out came the swivels and I just carried on using the same knot as I have confidence in it.
The purpose of the loop and/or flexi ring is to impart some movement into an otherwise inflexible rig. The loop will cause the bait/hook arrangement to move in the carps mouth, increasing the chance of it catching hold. The ring and loop will hopefully excentuate this movement and give me a bigger percentage of hook-ups.
 
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Philip Inzani

Guest
Just to give some more feedback on this, I tried the bucket of water thing again...well this time it was a sink of water that had a load of soap in it and it did make a difference! - I still cannot get every knot perfect but it definatly helps..not sure how practical it is on the bank! but it might be of use if you tie them at home.
Philip
 
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Kevan Garrett

Guest
well fellers, i have given up with the esp stiff rig, and have gone onto snake bite,all i do is remove a tiny piece of the outer coating and there you have it,a perfect stiff rig.
kevan
 
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Paul Millington

Guest
When tying up ESP I have found that by using knot lube (Nash), I get no problems with either the palomar or grinner knots.
Hope that helps.
 
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Dan Wellington

Guest
I'm a bit late with this reply! but I might have a few tips, when tying the ESP 15lb at home I've tied the hook end with a knotless knot, but I've used a soft supple hair whipped underneath and at swivel end I use a 5 turn grinner tied very slowly and well moistened, with this done it looks alot messier then your average hooklength, however this is where the straightening comes in pin the hook to the nearest notice board or similar and then pin the swivel very taught away from the hook so the entire length is under tension, left for 24hrs or so the hooklength will be dead straight and have little or no stretch, if on the bank you can do the same only hang 8 or 9 ounces of lead ( several bombs) from the hook and attach the swivel to your bedchair or brolly and leave for a few hours the results should be almost identical
 
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Wolfman Woody

Guest
WAKEY, WAKEY!!!

This is the earliest posting I can find, 17/07/00. Are there an/many before this?

Where are all these guys now? Budgie is still with us, I know and Rik (Carp Angler) is on occasionally these days, but what of the others?

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Interesting topic and my comment is.....

I use Amnesia but just use a figure 8 loop knot to attach it to a swivel.
 
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