Big Swordsy's spot on

If there was ever a blight on the angling landscape it's the 'commercial carp fishery' and, as Swordsy points out, the remorseless introduction of the water pig into every puddle and, more worryingly, every natural lake.

The EA can been complicit in this environmental vandalism, allowing stocking to be licensed, and though through no fault of its own, allowing illegal stocking elsewhere.

It's time the EA started surveying lakes properly before they allowed stocking, and being less free with the licences. You couldn't set up a zoo with 20 tigers in the same cage so the visitors all get the pleasure of seeing one, so why allow obscene stocking densities? It's an animal welfare issue, and (treading dangerously here) I wouldn't blame the RSPCA if they leapt on to this issue and started looking into what's going on.

I quite agree with Mark, far too many commercial fisheries exist without due regard to their stocks. F2s aside, stocking densities have gone / been allowed to go stupid. There are obiously fisheries which are more suatainably managed but its not these which are keeping the fish farms in business. The argument of 'we are only meeting a demand' rings hollow when angling is portrayed in a negative light because of this type of selfishness.

It is quite obvious that these fish are 'genetically modified' and as such they should be treated in exactly the same way as any other plant or animal.
Whilst stocking is is fine in a totally enclosed water, the damage is done by ignorant and illegal stockings into other waters. Not only this, but any water liable to flooding has the potential to spread the fish far and wide. Nature shows no respect in this instance. Neither does the 'puddle' owner seeking more profits or the anglers wanting a a heavier weight in the net on a winter's day.
Should we be concerned, damned right we should be.

The F2 variety of fish will unfairly compete with the indigenous fish of our waterways, placing unwanted and unnecessary pressure on the bio-diversity of our fisheries before they die of old age. They will then have to be re-stocked, perpetuating a vicious circle of artificial stocking levels and non-sustainable and genetically corrupted fish. The EA should seek new legislation to promote the stocking of only genetically sound indigenous fish species such as roach, rudd, crucian carp and so forth. There is no room for oddities such as F1's, F2's, brown Goldfish and exotics such as wels catfish, sterlets and sturgeon.


so whats the difference with the rainbow trout especially the triploid ones that we keep polluting our waters with, or is it just that coarse anglers care more about the environment than people like ron and the rest of the fly fishers.

A brilliant article Lee.
The profit motive is definitely the driving force of fish farmers and fishery owners with conservation, bio-diversity and fish health way down the list of their priorities.
If the EA issue licenses for the stocking of these fish then they must be held accountable for the distastrous consequences that will surely follow.
It is up to the various angling bodies and magazines to pressure them into reconsidering their policy on this issue.

Whilst ever certain sectors of the angling press make mention and capital out of such hideous "angling feats" as "Match Weight Smashed", you will get noddy puddle owners trying to out do each other as to how many of these poor fish can be crammed into the smallest volume of water.

I would have nothing against a small pool having a few decent carp in it together with say a few rudd. Then carp could be fished for in the classic style, margin fishing or even traditional freeline methods in water.

Waters like this used to exist years ago.

Why aren't they around now?

Look I am going to get some serious stick for this article which is a variant of one that is being run in the Anglingstar as we type.

If anyone would wish to submit a supporting letter to the paper as a counter balance to the matchfishing/fisherman/fishery angle please feel free

angling.star@sheffield newspapers.co.uk

And I am very happy that you like it!

"so whats the difference with the rainbow trout especially the triploid ones that we keep polluting our waters with, or is it just that coarse anglers care more about the environment than people like ron and the rest of the fly fishers."

Bit of a sweeping statement there Jason, no wonder Ron declined to answer it. Good decision.

it's just i don't see fly fishermen in general up in arms about triploid rainbows graham, but a lot is being made of these carp, it just makes me wonder whether it is the general bias of some people on this site against carp ron being the person who springs to mind most readily, as he is also one of the loudest advocates of just how good these rainbows are.

as for lees sentiments i whole heartedly agree.

I think one big difference is that trout get a good smack on the head, whereas carp get sha**ed on an unhooking mat.

or to put it another way how can some one rail against the furtherance of the genetic engineering of a species which has been in this country for around a thousand years while advocating the introduction of a similarly engineered species which was introduced by the victorians.

The best defence anglers can have against this is not to fish where this new strain of carp will be stocked, therby taking away the profitability of the puddle owners.

I think commercial fishery owners need to listen to their customers. If this site is anything to go by then many of them don`t want this abomination.

We need to remember that there is only really a minority of anglers who fish matches regularly the majority of us fish for more than catching fish

In an ideal world Stuart yes.

Unfortunately if you go down the river bank then to your local carp puddle you'll find far more people armed with poles playing hook a duck...sorry carp at the commercial. I think river and true 'pleasure' anglers are now the minority. Or more accurately the majority of anglers get their pleasure from hooking pasties at the commercial.

This is just the way it is, it is down to the fishery owners and the E.A to stand firm and not allow these fish to be stocked or other strains to be overstocked.

People like commercials, I have nothing against this or them but they need to be resposible and consider the balance of nature when stocking them.

On the mark again, Lee.

They were too busy thinking about whether they could. They should have stopped to think about whether they should.

I would have nothing against a small pool having a few decent carp in it together with say a few rudd. Then carp could be fished for in the classic style, margin fishing or even traditional freeline methods in water.

Waters like this used to exist years ago.

Why aren't they around now?


Because they've lost their "aura" of uncatchableness (is that english?) so more people want to fish for them.

do think that a lot of the "modern" carp fishing and carp waters is way too artificial though....

Absolutely Dave.

In 1965 I fished a little lake in Yorkshire near Pateley Bridge as a guest of Tag Barnes. It was about 2 acres and was fringed with overhanging trees, sedge and rushes. There were only about three spots you could actually fish from, amongst a mass of dense undergrowth.

There was a small dam wall at one end and a tinkling stream at the other. The stream held a few wild brown trout.

This lake had been stocked with Leney's carp about 1934 and a couple of them pushed 20 lbs. But most were around 9 to 14 lbs and were mirrors.

Both myself and Tag decided to fish the shallows from one spot. There was only room for two rods.

I had a Mk IV, an Intrepid Elite loaded with 8lbs mono and a 4 Model Perfect tied to the end. We threw out mashed bread groundbait, baited the hooks with flake and cast in.

We caught nothing in the night, but we heard a few enormous splashes.

As a grey dawn broke, I noticed masses of bubbles coming from the baited spot. Then my bit of silver paper taken from a cigarette packet jumped and line was being removed at a steady rate from the open spool. I put in the pick-up, waited whilst the line tightened and struck.

The hook came back and I had a bit of a job dislodging it from an over hanging branch.

So I cast out again. In minutes, the line ran out. This time I connected and after a slogging battle, landed a lean, long, nearly fully scaled mirror of 9lbs 15 oz. Tag weighed it and the miserable old blighter wouldn't give me double figures.

I caught another of 8 1/2 lbs about a hour later.

I never got the chance to fish this water again. But what a delight that little lake was. And to think those carp were over 30 years old.

Surely lakes could be created like this one Dave. This was proper carp fishing.

Not much hope of that, Ron. But this is what has polarised anglers. Half want to fish in stock ponds, the other half want to feel they've actually done something special - overcome millions of years of evolution of fish instinct and wariness and lifted a truly wild creature from its home for a minute or two.

The things I've seen at commercial fisheries, when reporting, you understand. The morning round to net out the carcases and hide the evidence, the dead heron full of buckshot, fish with hideously deformed mouths and open sores, 5lb carp with so many size 22s in them they have lips like an old punk rocker.

It's all about instant gratification, isn't it? It's the one-day test match of fishing, the Nintendo, Ikea furniture, instant food, all of that stuff. Sad old world. And some sad old gits in it, too!

And I don't want to fish waters like this Mark - ever.

As Walker once said, it's like trying to have it off with a raddled old tart.

And it's time carp like these were knocked on the head, put out of their misery and buried. If angling in Britain has come to this, then I am sorry for the carp, but even more sorry for the anglers that want to fish such waters.

Somewhere along the way, the true values of angling have been lost.