Alternative Angler - Rod Licences

What can you do about it, Kevin?

As an ordinary member of the public - precious little.

to be continued.......

Continuation...

I wanted to start this one off, but the length of the posting might have had someone else starting one and then we'd have had two threads....


Right - representation to the EA. It may not be the case in many areas, but on the Thames we have an organisation called the TFCC (Thames Fisheries Consultative Council) and on it there are various members representing other fisheries consulatatives along the Thames and it's tributaries like the Colne and the Thame etc.

We, the Thames Valley Angling Association, are one as well as being an association to provide fishing. At our meetings we invite a member of teh EA fisheries department, often it's John Sutton who is Fisheries and Biodiversity Manager for the entire region down to the Thames Barrier.

We exchange ideas, pass on observations, and in return he updates us on any research work that's gone on in our small area. It's worthwhile and the topic of cormorants and illegal fish removal have been discussed in the past. At our April meeting you can rest assured that we will voice an opinion to update the bye-laws to include a rule on the removal of fish.

My suggestion to the ordinary angler is this:

Go to your club meetings, open meetings or AGM whatever, and ask of your committee - is our club a member of a local fisheries consultative?

Follow that with the usual - if not why not?

If they are - Does any member of the committee attend the consultative's meetings?

Follow that with the usual - if not why not?

If they do ask them to propose puttin to their region's EA Fisheries Department a new bye-law restricting the removal of fish to XXcms (or whatever).

That is the way representation works. The local consultative, like ours and I know Thame Fisheries is the same, should have an EA member present at each meeting.

As for ensuring everyone has a licence before fishing, this can be tricky.

Example A - A chap living miles from a day ticket water wants to fish on Sunday. The tickets are only available from a tackle shop within the vicinity and it is not open on Sunday. He asks his mate to buy him a ticket, but he cannot provide his licence without having to drive the many miles just to obtain the ticket and then drive there again to fsih the day after. What does he do?

Example B - A chap has entered a match, driven 60 miles with over ?20 worth of live bait. He gets there only to find he left his wallet on the mantlepiece (this is not Graham Marsden who has his on a chain and padlock!) that contains his licence. Currently he can fish and if an EA bailif catches him he has 7 days in which to send in the licence. Do you allow him to fish or irritate him beyond belief by barring him?

Example C - A club's year end on March 31st and new tickets must be purchased in advance. Because it is a popular club members are encouraged to apply in January and asked to show a licence for the valid year ie the following April. However, the licences are not available until March. What does the club do now?

- each of these examples is real, believe me!

Fair shout Kevin!
I've made suggestions on other threads about not being able to purchase a day ticket or club card without showing a valid E.A licence. But that would be down to tackle shops and fishery owners to enforce. Dunno mate, but it certainly does need addressing!

If you do not have a valid E.A. licence, there is only yourself to blame. So stop trying to park your problems onto somebody else.

Time for your tablet and bed again Baz.

Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest. Please!

The same goes for club cards and day tickets. Get that into your napper.
You did mention about the match angler forgetting his licence. He does not have a problem.
As for the person deciding to go fishing at the last minuit, Tough titty.

Yes I am tired, after working for the lazy anglers for three hours non stop. I will have another look tomorrow after I have done a work party for the idle anglers that you like to protect and treat with kid gloves.

Have I missed something here?
Why are you on one Baz?

Why should I be on one just because I speak my own mind? I have already said I will read it again tomorrow.

Ooops, someone is a bit grumpy tonight!

No cards I bet!

Actually Steve, I had a fistfull of them tonight, and I enjoyed every second of it.

"As for the person deciding to go fishing at the last minuit, Tough titty."

Where does it say that Baz?

This is why I say "Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest." You don't. You jump to your own conclusions without fully understanding what is written and I can assure you that what I wrote IS exactly what I meant.

Example A is me (complete with 2005 and a NEW 2006 licence) wanting to fish a water 45 miles away. Do I have to go there the day before to present my licence to buy a day ticket for the day after when I have to go again? Or does the fishery owner have to lose a customer becuase we can't accomodate your new rule?

Example C is a club I am a member of and with silly rules like "post off your 2006 licence", which I wouldn't have had anyway in January, but even if I had, the club doesn't return them until they issue the cards last week in March. So that's 8 or more weeks when my licence is missing, not available for a regular bailiffs to check - do I have to give up fishing for 8 weeks?

Then what about other clubs I want to join and they too want to see my licence, but can't because the first (or subsequent) club I applied to still has it? Are they to lose members and revenue because of such a silly rule? At this rate I might as well pack in fishing because my licence, which I need to fish, will spend most of the year on someone's desk waiting for them to send it back to me.

Trouble is Baz, you're so hung up with your one club and petty rules you just see a tiny view of a global landscape. Thank heavens no one listens to you.

I'm all for clamping down on licence dodgers, but let's get real about this and come up with some half-sound proposals. Besides which, it's still none of your problem, it's EA business.

Woody.
As promissed I have read through the article and your posting again.
It might just be me, but you seem to be jumping between the purchase of club and E.A. licences, and for me this is what is confusing the issue, and I am sure it is confusing other people as well, hence the lack of replies.
(Type more slowly in future please, I am from the North).

Example (A)
Wouldn't a photo copy of your E.A. licence suffice?


Example (B) does not have a problem as his details can now be checked on the bank by an E.A. officer.

Example (C).
Again wouldn't a photo copy of your E.A. licence suffice?

I like the idea of haveing an E.A. rep at a monthly meeting. It is something my club has only ever done on one occasion, but I will take your advice and see if we can make it a more regular feature.

Jeff, Baz, Steve et al...

The (probably badly wrtten) point I was trying to make in the article is the way in which we anglers tend to view the EA as the 'enemy'. Whilst I am sure that there are lines of communications open at certain levels, they may not be visible to the vast majority of licence payers.

The current clamour for legislation to make the removal of certain fish illegal will be useless without effective enforcement. If the EA can't cope with the problem now, it won't get better just because of a change in the law.

With regard to having a two-tier closed season, and mundane licence checks, why not have a two-tier system of bailiffing? Perhaps club bailiffs (many of whom do sterling, often unsung work) could be trained and authorised to check licences on a part time basis, perhaps even be paid to do so.

If doing that that means we have to stump up a few quid extra a year to see a visible EA presence on the bank - then so be it I say, and who would argue that?

But again, how does the average angler get these qusetions and suggestions across to the EA.....?

Baz, this is the season of apologies and can I extend one to you. My remark "Thank heavens no one listens to you." was quite out of order.

I apologise for having made it. Of course I listen to you as do others and you have made soem good contributions in the past.
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The problem with many of the suggestions is that they are restrictive to clubs and to day tickets waters in the circumstances (and there are others) that I outlined. Would I trust a photocopy? You have to be joking, but then I have a practice producing forgeries (oops)!

What the EA needs is more full-time bailiffs to cover more of the club waters and free stretches of river. However, finding and paying them are other problems. If the licence fee goes up as a result, it will only be clawed back for the EA through grant in aid, I'm sure.

To have club bailiffs do the job, they used to have volunteer bailiffs, is another matter. However, here again the bailiffs would need training in PACE and that from memory is at least a two weeks course. Who pays?

If there was a better suggestion I could put forward, believe me I would not only have already put it forward, I would be fighting tooth and nail for the EA and Government to adopt it. I feel (fear even) that we are well and truly stuck in a rut.

Jeff

For my sins I am a member of a community (parish) council, one of the more onerous tasks we have is to set a precept on the Community Charge (poll tax) to fund local services.

One of the biggest criticims we get is the lack of policing, no guidance and support for local youngsters, and no one clearing up litter, graffitti etc.

Living in a relativly crime-free area, we don't get police support, not having gangs of drink or drug crazed youths roaming the estates causing mayhem means we don't need a youth worker, and our rubbish problems, fly tipping etc are nowhere near serious enough to warrant additional resources being diverted to us.

And yet we pay our Community Charges, which should supply these services and we have by far the greatest proportion of
Band D and E houses in the area, and are therefore making the biggest contribution to local council funds.

But the local homeowners are more than happy to accept a 25% increase on the precept (around ?5 per year) in order that we can now directly employ a Police Community Officer, a Youth Worker and a
Safety Officer to look after the needs of the local community.

It is no good anglers moaning about the lack of service they get from the EA if they are not prepared to put their hands in their pockets to pay for a better service

As this is the season of apologies, I'll give one to you and Steve Woody. I did have a bit of a one on me the other night, more tired than anything and you were right, I hadn't read things properly,and wasn't concentrating on my reply, so it came out tits up. It's my own fault, I was asking for it. At the same time I know you didn't really mean what you said in your reply.

I did the valuntary NRA and then E.A. bailiffing bit, and it was really effective.
We did have the Police and Criminal Evidence Act ( P.A.C.E.) to guide us, but it was rarely needed. The basics were all that we really needed.

To get the E.A. baliff warrant card back has now been made an almost impossibility. Shame really.
But I do think it would be a good idea to get an E.A. official back into the club meetings. I think that in time, good progress would come of it.

One suggestion I will put forward is that the E.A. come into the clubs as you say, and work towards taking action on the information that club bailiffs can provide, once we have been told of the requirements that are needed if it is at all possible.

The club bailiff knows where to go for the licence dodgers. We will do the leg work, This is something the E.A. could really cash in on.

I am going to start putting some kind of a directive together for my next club meeting, any suggestions appart from what you have already said will be most welcome.

I appreciate what you are saying Kevin and I'd be happy to pay a ?1 levy (that would raise well over ?1,000,000) just to pay for extra bailiffs. But I fear that somehow it would slip neatly into Mr Brown's pocket and we wouldn't see it again.

Watch out on the Thames. The ones we do have are riding up and down on the navigation boats, the ones you happily wave at, hiding under the gunwhales ready to pounce out and check you. Nice!!!

Baz, that is a point very worth thinking about. We could be meeting our man next week and I'll mention it!

Baz and/or Jeff

If either of you illustrious gentlemen are meeting with any EA officials in the not to distant future, could you ask what is required to qualify for authority to act as an EA bailiff? Would be interesting to find out what the criteria are.

Jeff

If a small increase in licence fees was proposed with the specific intention of raising enforcement levels, why can't that be ring-fenced for that specific purpose, don't the EA have to set and adhere to budgets, just like the rest of us? (Might be another subject to ask the man from the EA)

In fact, why can't we (through FM) talk to 'someone' at the EA.....???

Getting irate head on now......!