All or most modern angling writers (British) influenced by Walker

Mark Wintle

Mark Wintle

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Ron stated yesterday that he thought that "all" retracted to "most" modern British angling writers were influenced by Walker.

I'm floating the argument that most modern angling writers are blissfully unaware of Walker, and judging by the tripe that I continue to read on thermoclines, floats, and a multitude of other subjects, I rest my case.

There were writers heavily influenced by Walker; his disciples if you like, Stone, Taylor, Guttfield (Clay if I might dare say so), and others that I'm sure would say that they were influenced, possibly people like Tony Miles and Jim Gibbinson (any comment from Jim? or Graham?). I'll admit that I AM influenced by his thinking.

But I see very little of that influence in those that concentrate on descriptive writing or matchfishing (where it's needed most!).
 
GrahamM

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I make no bones about the fact that Walker was my greatest influence in angling and angling writing. I admired his style in both, and I will always appreciate the help and encouragement he gave me in both.

As far as I'm concerned he still stands head and shoulders above any other angler and angling writer of any generation. Not so much for his descriptive prose but for his outstanding ability to be able to convey his innermost thoughts in terms that were easily understood, even when they involved the most complex subjects.

The tackle he invented, innovated or popularised reads like a shopping list and although there will always be those who can select individual aspects of the man to criticise his overall influence on angling is colossal.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Walker encouraged and MADE a large number of angling writers.

Let me see if I can name a few:

Frank Guttfield, Peter Stone, Fred J Taylor, Peter Wheat, Graham Marsden, Tag Barnes, Jack Hilton, Fred Wagstaffe, Barrie Rickards, Ray Webb, Tony Miles, Trefor West, Kevin Clifford, Bill Keal, Chris Ball, Jim Gibbinson, Chris Yates, Des Taylor, Rod Hutchinson, Peter Mohan, Maurice Ingham, John Norman, Bob Church, Steve Parton, Arthur Cove, Alan Pearson, Fred Buller, Colin Dyson and many others I just cannot bring to mind at the moment.

Most of these writers were/are, of course - specimen types.

On the match angling front, we are presented with a strange set of circumstances. Unless I can be proved wrong, and I am willing to, I would say that the vast majority of the top match anglers never wrote a word! I am talking here about people like Billy Lane, Ivan Marks, Percy Anderson and others.

All their articles were ghost written.

Even today a lot of the stuff by Alan Scotthorne and Bob Nudd is ghost written.

I wonder why?
 
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keora

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Walker's writings had a strong scientific and engineering background, yet he was able to simplify difficult concepts and communicate his views to other anglers.

I think angling writers in the sixties and seventies looked up to Walker, but they didn't necessarily imitate his style.

I somtimes read articles where it's clear that the author hasn't a clue about the physical principles behind, for example, the bouyancy of floats or the effect of the thermocline. The Angling times has printed two short pieces about the thermocline, both of which were incorrect. To me it shows that some of the ideas which Walker tried to publicise have fallen on deaf ears.
 
Peter Jacobs

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Ron poses the question:
"I wonder why?"

Let me try to launch a couple of possibilities:

Could it be the 'angling generation gap' Ron?

The above list, with no disrespect meant, are mainly of the older generation of anglers, who as you rightly say were mainly specimen anglers.
They also wrote in a kinder and more 'time-convenient' era, and/or as the more modern authors are concerned are/were in the main 'professional angling writers'

These gentlemen (when compared to the likes of the modern match angler) certainly had the luxury of time on their side.

To be consistently successful on the mmatch circuit, let alone the international scene, requires almost 100% dedication to practice, attending matches and planning/preparing for the next practice or actual match.

Also, you cannot hope to see the same level of prose in the match scene that you would expect to find in the more descriptive specimen scene.
I cannot imagine for one moment Bob or Alan spending valuable match time even looking at the clouds, trees or bankside life let alone trying to write about it afterwards.

Ghost writing on the other hand is, IMHO, quite acceptable considering the alternative might be never to hear the experienced opinions of the likes of Nudd or Scotthorne.

Just my opinion of course, other may hold a different view.
 
Mark Wintle

Mark Wintle

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Ron,

You're right about the match anglers; the likes of Colin Graham, Colin Dyson, Peter Collins, John Goodwin, Chris Dawn were some of the jounalists that ghosted their books and articles.

Not convinced about Chris Yates in your list, Ron?

So what of writers that only got started from the mid eighties, as most of your list started in the fifties/sixties/seventies.
 
Graham Whatmore

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Most people who are interested in writing are usually prolific readers as well so its hardly surprising that anyone interested in fishing and writing about it will have read the Walker articles and books and be influenced by him. Also the other top writers who constantly refer to Walker must play a part as well and there is no getting away from the fact that he was a very influential figure in angling.

I think I tend to agree with Mark about Chris Yates though, he has a totally different style, almost a novellists style, very descriptive but not heavy on method and theory. Of all the angling writers I've read over the years I think I have enjoyed Chris Yates books the most.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Peter,

First of all thanks for contributing to this debate. Thank's also to Mark for raising these very interesting issues.

I'm interested in the so called: "Angling Generation Gap".

When I was in my early teens I read everything I could find on the subject of fishing. A great deal of it was not genuine. I was able to spot that in later years. The only writer I found was was really good at the time was JW Martin - The Trent Otter.

Then along came Walker. He was different, everything he wrote struck a cord. He was no plagiarist. He wrote about fishing straight from his own experiences. He told the truth.

And he was old enough to be my father, in fact he was only a few months younger than my father. To many anglers of my generation he became a father figure. There was no generation gap at all.

Even though a lot of Walker's writings were of a technical nature, he could set an angling scene, a scene you could equate with.

"Why", I often used to say to myself, "I have also been down this road before."

One of the most interesting books, written in the 60s was "A Float Fishing Encyclopedia" by Billy Lane and Colin Graham. Colin Graham (a professional journalist) wrote the whole book of course after spending a great deal of time with Billy learning the man's secrets and ideas.

In terms of a technical treatise, I don't think there is anything wrong in ghost writing. Although the one being ghost written for, can often lose the common touch with the reader and that can make the reading of the article a tad boring, like some school text books.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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And speaking of Chris Yates, there is no doubt that he, as a descriptive angling writer, has genius.

Yates was certainly influenced partly by Walker. He said so on several occasions.

However, good old Chris is what can only be described as a bit of an "Arty Farty" type to quote Alan Sugar.

But there is nothing wrong with that. In the world of angling journalism we need the arty farties as well as we need the technical writers. Both have their place.

I also think that Chris was heavily influenced by Venables and BB.

However, I will make this statement which any of you can refute if you want.

Chris is far more "readable" than Venables ever was! He is a better writer, nearly as good as two of the very best descriptive writers in British Angling History.

Who are those?:

Hugh Tempest Sheringham and "BB" (Denys Watkins Pitchford).
 
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paul williams 2

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How far does Ghost writing go Ron? eg does the name give the writer the imfo and it's then put down?
 
Peter Jacobs

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Ron,

The 'gap' that I refer to is not the difference between author and reader but more the generation gap between the likes of Walker, Stone, Taylor Ingham et al and those who I consider to be 'modern' authors, the likes of Des Taylor, Nudd and Scotthorne.

Walker and his contemporaries lived, fished and wrote in what I term more gentle times where the luxury of time was granted to them as opposed to today's 'modern' match anglers, like Nudd and Scotthorne.

I well remember reading everything I could get my hands on by Walker, Taylor and 'BB' as a young teenager and as you know I have most of their works even today.

Not wanting to start any sort of 'war' but I think the best comparison to describe my meaning would be the difference between, say, the AT/AM and the Waterlog magazine. Granted there is a difference in both style and reason, but I think you will understand where I am trying to go with this.

As far as Chris is concerned, who else can write a page or two, in an angling book, and not even mention either fish, fishing or even a species?
The man is unique in his work, again INHO.


If I don't get a chance to contribute further today it is because I'll be on the train going back to work later on this afternoon ;-(
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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What happens in many situations is that the writer makes a resume of what he wants out of the person involved. Then he talks to the guy with a tape recorder, or if he is good at shorthand, takes it down.

Then he writes it, reads it back and if the person approves, it's a wrap.

Did a bit of this over the years.

What tends to happen today is the "actuality" method of writing a piece in the present tense.

eg:

"I am casting to the baited spot with a 1 oz bomb and due to the following wind I am having to feather the cast down a tad to get accuracy."
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Actually Peter, Walker did not have a lot of time, neither did he ever consider himself a professional writer.

He was first and formost a lawnmower engineer who had angling and writing about it as a hobby.

But Walker had a gift. He could, in no more than five or six minutes, dictate in excess of a thousand words and not make any mistakes, and have the article spot on first time.

He could also read a whole page of script in seconds, and repeat it all verbatum without the need to look at the writing again.

He would have made a top class professional journalist, make no mistake.
 
GrahamM

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Ghost writing is a pretty simple process, it involves the angler relating the facts and the ghost writer putting them into readable English. Not much more to it than that where fishing books are concerned.
 
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Bryan Baron 2

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As said above the best writers are usually good readers. I myself can not read a book in one go. I am currently reading trevor West Barbel a lifetimes addiction. I have been reading this for the last 6 months. This is more than likely the reason that i do not write well. If i am like this there must be many others also so gost writting as its called is a perfectly acceptable.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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I read the Stone/Walker Letters the other day. Totally compulsive stuff. I started it at 8-00 pm and finished it at 3 am.
 
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chris 2

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Iam re reading all my old waterlog mags this close season.Yates,Petley,R.K.Moore etc great reading.Iam like you Ron,open a bottle of wine early evning and just read and chill out.
 
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paul williams 2

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I wudn't need a ghoster to wrote my artycules then? :)
 
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